ACELC — If Not Now, When?

“I will also speak of your testimonies before kings and shall not be put to shame” Psalm 119:46

ACELCSeveral years ago, now LCMS President Matthew Harrison authored a paper entitled “It’s Time.” Appealing to Scripture, the Lutheran Confessions, and our Lutheran fathers, he outlined the strengths and beauty of Lutheranism, as well as the challenges we face today. He boldly called for a grass roots effort to identify these challenges and to offer meaningful ways to bring about true Koinonia in our midst. In answering that call, the ACELC was formed.

Since that time we have identified 10 of what we believe to be the most serious errors in the LCMS, as well as supporting documents and study guides. In addition, we have hosted four “Free Conferences” to address these errors in more detail, all with a goal of Koinonia.

In order for our goal to be realized and for more people to be aware of our work, two years ago we began the “ACELC Film Project.” I am happy to report that after much hard work and many generous contributions, the project is now a reality. With great joy, I invite and encourage you to view the fruit of our efforts. I pray that it will dispel many of the myths about the ACELC and open your eyes for the need for our ongoing efforts. The links to view the film are listed at the bottom of this e-mail.

“If Not Now, When?” is available in a number of different formats to allow you to view it in whole or in parts, and two study guides are currently available with several more in the works. DVDs will soon be available as well.

Please take a few moments to view our film. Use it for personal or congregational study. Show it during Bible Study time, in elder’s meetings, pastor gatherings, or wherever you think it might be helpful. I trust that you will find it thought provoking and at times challenging. I pray that you will find it faithful and God-pleasing.

In Christ,
Rev. Clint K. Poppe
Chairman, ACELC

 

“If Not Now, When?” (Full 68 Minute Video)

 

“If Not Now, When?” (Part One – Approx. 34 Minutes)

 

“If Not Now, When?” (Part Two – Approx. 34 Minutes)

 

 

The study guides will be posted within the next few days on our Website under the tab “ACELC Film Project

Note: While the Board of Directors of the ACELC has reviewed and approved the content of this message, it does not necessarily reflect the position of the ACELC member congregations.

About Norm Fisher

Norm was raised in the UCC in Connecticut, and like many fell away from the church after high school. With this background he saw it primarily as a service organization. On the miracle of his first child he came back to the church. On moving to Texas a few years later he found a home in Lutheranism when he was invited to a confessional church a half-hour away by our new neighbors.

He is one of those people who found a like mind in computers while in Middle School and has been programming ever since. He's responsible for many websites, including the Book of Concord, LCMSsermons.com, and several other sites.

He has served the church in various positions, including financial secretary, sunday school teacher, elder, PTF board member, and choir member.

Norm has been involved behind the scenes in many of the "go-to" websites for Lutherans going back many years.

Comments

ACELC — If Not Now, When? — 154 Comments

  1. @John Rixe #48

    Luther said the Gospel is a passing rain shower, and where people do not appreciate it, it moves on. It certainly has, in Germany. If we continue to run after false teachers and thereby, false gods, why should we expect anything more and different?

  2. John Rixe :
    @Mrs. Hume #47
    Do you feel God is working through His people to prevent a continuing downward spiral into heterodoxy?  I do.  

    I have no feel for the situation. I just have no idea.

    So, I can’t venture a guess. I pray for the best for the LCMS.

    My position is to do what I am charged with doing and that is to look out for my children and contribute to what is going on in my congregation. Beyond that, I have no influence nor can I tell which way things are heading. I know that I feel betrayed when I find out that the high school Sunday school teacher has been showing Rob Bell videos to the youth. I think it trains the youth to trust Rob Bell and that is wrong. Our youth should not be led to believe that these false teachers are okay to listen to. We call people who are on the LCMS roster to serve our youth believing that our youth will get LCMS instruction.

  3. @Mrs. Hume #1

    I don’t have much of an idea either but I can venture a guess based on Pr Noland’s judgments:

    1.  Doctrinal commitment in our seminaries and Concordia University theology faculty.

    2.  Doctrine being preached in the pulpit.

    3.  “Fantastic” young people.  I personally can vouch for this from my interaction with vicars and new teachers.  Their dedication and solid training is indeed fantastic.  I sure can’t find any downward spiral here.

    4.  Quality of seminaries, universities, and parish schools.

    5.  Quality of communications departments – doctrinally sound books and periodicals.

    6.  Leadership of Pr Harrison.

  4. John Rixe :
    I respect the vigilance of ACELC but fail to recognize the “continuing downward spiral into heterodoxy.”  Please see https://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=37754   
    Around here these are good days for the LCMS.  From His fulness have we all received grace upon grace.
    @Mrs Hume #37

    I respect Pastor Nolland greatly, however, the fact that there is much to be thankful for and the fact that there are many in our Synod who are solidly Confessional in their doctrine and practice does not in the least set aside the errorists out there who are teaching and practicing the faith in ways that could not be considered Lutheran by any stretch of the imagination. If we don’t stand up against error, then we have no excuse when error has it’s way with people. No one expects the Church on this side of heaven to be perfect, but when the Church openly tolerates or even promotes error it is wrong. If I were to make a pan of brownies that tasted absolutely wonderful and told you that as I was making the batter a pigeon flying overhead dropped a load into the batter, but to counteract it I quadrupled the recipe so that the poop would be a minor part of the mix, almost completely undetectable, would you eat one of those brownies?

    I think not. It is no different with our theology. A little leaven leavens the whole lump, and our Church Body, strong as it may be in places, has a whole lot more than just a little tiny bit of leaven in her theology and practice.

  5. Mrs. Hume :

    John Rixe :
    @Mrs. Hume #47
    Do you feel God is working through His people to prevent a continuing downward spiral into heterodoxy?  I do.  

    I have no feel for the situation. I just have no idea.
    So, I can’t venture a guess. I pray for the best for the LCMS.
    My position is to do what I am charged with doing and that is to look out for my children and contribute to what is going on in my congregation. Beyond that, I have no influence nor can I tell which way things are heading. I know that I feel betrayed when I find out that the high school Sunday school teacher has been showing Rob Bell videos to the youth. I think it trains the youth to trust Rob Bell and that is wrong. Our youth should not be led to believe that these false teachers are okay to listen to. We call people who are on the LCMS roster to serve our youth believing that our youth will get LCMS instruction.

    While there may not be many things concerned laypeople can do, they CAN show their support of the work of the ACELC by joining as Associate Members. Congregational Membership is more difficult because it requires congregational action in a voter’s meeting in most cases, but individuals who agree with what we are doing should join, and sooner rather than later. Here’s the link:

    http://www.acelc.net/message2.php?formID=728

  6. QUOTE OF THE DAY

    Rev. Drew Newman :
    No one expects the Church on this side of heaven to be perfect, but when the Church openly tolerates or even promotes error it is wrong. If I were to make a pan of brownies that tasted absolutely wonderful and told you that as I was making the batter a pigeon flying overhead dropped a load into the batter, but to counteract it I quadrupled the recipe so that the poop would be a minor part of the mix, almost completely undetectable, would you eat one of those brownies?

  7. Rev. Drew Newman :

    If I were to make a pan of brownies that tasted absolutely wonderful and told you that as I was making the batter a pigeon flying overhead dropped a load into the batter, but to counteract it I quadrupled the recipe so that the poop would be a minor part of the mix, almost completely undetectable, would you eat one of those brownies?

    Rev. Newman, You are an amazing pastor. However, you should never, I REPEAT NEVER, write cookbooks!

    In all seriousness, I agree with Rev. Crandall’s “QUOTE OF THE DAY.”

  8. As I mentioned, I respect the vigilance of ACELC.  However I don’t see any signs of “absolute eradication of Lutheranism in North America”, “running after false gods”, “downward spiral into heterodoxy”.    This kind of language is just discouraging and gives a false impression to the public IMO.

    I’m repeating myself again so I’m dropping out to go make some brownies.

  9. @John Rixe #7
    However I don’t see…

    I agree with you that far, John. 🙁

    Maybe you can’t “see” until you’ve had two different confessional Pastors shown the door by two different “Sr” (self described “confessional”) men, for no Lutheran reason… in 7 years. [And, yes, Tim S., I do resent it. But I can only suppose that God thought I was getting too comfortable, which I was.]

    We used to assume that only “Jerry’s friends” played this kind of politics!

    If we have a confessional majority, we won’t have one long, if they are going to knock their confessional brothers out of the ring, while the heterodox get a bye.

  10. @Rev. Drew Newman #3
    “I quadrupled the recipe so that the poop would be a minor part of the mix, almost completely undetectable”

    Hey, the brownie’s would have to be better than 85% of the mix. That’s GREAT, isn’t it?

  11. John Rixe :
    As I mentioned, I respect the vigilance of ACELC.  However I don’t see any signs of “absolute eradication of Lutheranism in North America”, […] This kind of language is just discouraging and gives a false impression to the public IMO.

    I agree. Overstatements are dangerous, because people will dismiss the warnings, saying they are wrong. At the same time, you need to be clear and sharp, yes even maybe be a bit polemic when describing the problems, so that people react properly.

    About the alleged “eradication of Lutheranism in North America” as a threat, I would say that this to me seems like an “American attitude”, where all that counts is numbers, “bigger is better” etc. where the worst catastrophy is being small. But we should not fear so much to be small in numbers, but to be disobedient to our Lord Jesus Christ.

  12. @Rev. Jakob Fjellander #10
    I agree that our faithfulness to the Lord Jesus is our first priority. That statement is not at all incompatible with confessional Lutheran bodies being large or small or even nonexistent. But where we have confessional Lutheran bodies, by definition we ought to have congregations that are being faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ by virtue of the preaching and teaching of the Word of God in its truth and purity and the administration of the sacraments according to the institution of Jesus. Of course my motive was not to suggest that the numbers are what “matter.”
    Since I am guilty of having expressed the quoted hyperbole that may have led to that impression, may I suggest that it isn’t as hyperbolic as it sounds? Now, if the hyperbole were completely true, then the “numbers” would be zero, and surely you will agree that zero is a meaningful number in this discussion. If there are “zero” Lutheran congregations in America, then there would be zero places where the Word is being taught and preached in its truth and purity, etc. What else would that be than “disobedience to our Lord Jesus Christ”?

    But as you indicate this is a peculiarly American attitude, allow me to say that the American context may be different from the European situation in one respect: the geography over here is huge for one country. There are places already where people would have to literally drive some hours to find a confessional Lutheran congregation. If the present trend toward heterodoxy continues over here, it will become impossible for many Americans–perhaps my sons–to attend a confessional Lutheran Divine Service at all, or certainly not with any regularity. And within a generation or two, they will cease to be Lutherans with all that means in terms of their concord with the Word and sacraments. From my admittedly subjective perspective, that constitutes the “eradication of Lutheranism in North America.” The fact that a little, faithful clump remains here or there may not be much help to millions who would be Lutheran if there were any place for them to be Lutheran.

    Humanly speaking, I believe that the LCMS is still the best opportunity to have a pan-American, confessionally-Lutheran church body over here. Pan-American (and I refer to the nation, not the two continents) is not necessary, but it is helpful, because our population is so mobile. I believe that that the LCMS is the best opportunity because I see that there is still the possibility for the synod to be reformed. People are beginning to take note of the problems that are dividing us, and I think more and more people are intending to do their part in addressing them. We will see what the Lord of the Church will do.

  13. @Perry Copus #11
    I notice that we agree. Good!

    Of course I too would love to have an confessional church body in the US having millions of members. But I am living in a country, Sweden, where confessional lutheranism consists of roughly 500 souls, so I have a different perspective. (I don’t count the conservative group The Mission Province as confessional, and they are not big either, between 1 and 2 thousand maybe). So, from my perspective it’s really great that (as an example) the Church of Lutheran Confession is about 9000. I would not call that to be “eradicated”, even if I admit that 9000 in the US is proportionally less than 500 in Sweden.
    But if we call being 10 000 in the US to be “eradicated”, then I think there is a risk for you. We must be prepared for anything.

  14. @Jais H. Tinglund #12
    I don’t doubt that we share more concerns than we know. Thank you for your kindness, I confess I am somewhat ignorant of your context, to my shame.

    @Rev. Jakob Fjellander #13
    How I rejoice to find brothers in Sweden who share our concerns here, and from a different perspective. I think what many of us are feeling here is just the terrible waste–LCMS was a very solid, confessional body, and over a few decades has really slipped far wide of the mark. Now there is a broad apathy within the LCMS. As a church body it is smaller than it was, but still it is numbered something over 2 million souls. It would be shameful if the children and grandchildren of those 2 million knew and learned nothing of Lutheran, biblical doctrine and practice. It would be poor stewardship of what we have been given, what was handed down to us as gift.

    But, as you say, we are prepared to be Lutheran, however things go–as many or as few of us as God wills. Christ is still Lord of the Church. It is his, and he will see to it. He would surely use us as instruments if we would remain faithful, but we know that the work and the “results” remain his.

  15. Perry Copus :
    I confess I am somewhat ignorant of your context, to my shame.

    No cause for shame. I myself tend to be ignorant when it comes to that of which nobody has ever told me …

    I was born and raised and trained and ordained in Denmark, and served in the State Church there for about six years before joining the Evangelical Lutheran Free Church of Denmark and eventually receiving a call to serve in the LCMS.

    From my years in the State Church, and that was my point, I experienced the concern that in some parts of the country Christians would have to drive for hours to find a church at which they could expect to hear decent preaching. I remember the concern some would express when the only Pastor of the faith within reasonable driving distance from them was approaching the age for mandatory retirement. And I remember the concern, also, for what the future would hold for the children of the faithful without access to decent catechesis. I do not think that it would be unfair to describe what some of them expressed as a concern about the “eradication”of the faith in their region.

    And I am not even talking about Confessional Lutherans here, but mostly Christians who were basically Pietists, although with some Lutheran elements to their thinking …

    As much as I have been able to follow the developments in the old country, things have only grown worse there. And the so-called “right wing” that used to represent the faithful remnant within the State Church has continued to distance itself ever further from what was Lutheran in it roots and heritage.

    When it comes to our Lutheran sister Church in Denmark, she has three congregations. The Pastors there, both residing in the same city, have to travel for about an hour to get to one of the congregations, and for several hours to get to the other. Several of the members also travel for hours to make it to church. And the Pastors have to travel even farther on a regular basis to serve members living even more remotely – such as the former members of congregations recently shut down.

    My point, again, was that geographical concerns in connection with the eradication of the faith in an area would not be unique to an American context …

  16. Jais H. Tinglund :

    My point, again, was that geographical concerns in connection with the eradication of the faith in an area would not be unique to an American context …

    Well, the examples of Denmark and Sweden shows that this “eradication” can happen, quite obviously it’s a risk for the LCMS too! And the basic problem is lack of church discipline which inevitably leads to unionism, because everyone can believe what he likes. Then they will do that, sooner or later.

  17. Theological decline and unfaithfulness to Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions is a process, not an event. As documented in the ACELC video, since 1945 that sad deterioration has been and continues to be on-going in the LCMS. It has waxed and wained over time but the downward spiral into error continues in the same trend. Why? Simply because the orthodox character of any church body is seen in how it deals with error or fails to deal with it. While I share Pr. Noland’s observations that there are yet 7,000 in “Israel” who are faithful, that does not give our Synod any excuse for failing to deal with her errors! Those who are faithful in the LCMS do not “baptize” the errorists among us.

    Either the LCMS must deal with her errors or what Rev. Dr. Hermann Sasse said is true:

    “Among the lies which destroy the church there is one we have not yet mentioned. Along side the pious and dogmatic lies, there stands an especially dangerous form of lie which can be called the institutional lie. By this we mean a lie which works itself out in the institutions of the church, in her government and her law. It is so dangerous because it legalizes the other lies in the church and makes them impossible to remove…It must protect open heretics when the “orthodox” side denies that they possess an equal legitimacy in the church…In place of the objective message of that which God has done in Christ, subjective religious feelings and convictions soon form the essential content of the sermon. Thus the church sinks to the level of an institution for the satisfaction of the manifold religious needs of people and ceases to be the church of Christ, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” (Sasse, Hermann, “Union and Confession”, 1936, The Lonely Way, pp. 268.)

    The real danger in Missouri today comes from those (either Confessional or liberal) who consider the maintenance of “peace” in the Synod to be of greater importance than the maintenance of pure doctrine and right administration of the Sacraments. For the sake of maintaining a “peaceful” Synod, they will not adequately address error, resolve it and ultimately remove it and thus becomes a heterodox church body if allowed to continue. As Francis Pieper put it:

    “A congregation or church body which abides by God’s order, in which therefore God’s Word is taught in its purity and the Sacraments administered according to the divine institution, is properly called an orthodox church (ecclesia orthodox, pura). But a congregation or church body which,in spite of the divine order, tolerates false doctrine in its midst is properly called a heterodox church (ecclesia heterodoxa impura).” (Pieper, Francis, “Christian Dogmatics”, vol. III, p. 422)

    The LCMS continues to tolerate error among us and as Pieper puts it:

    “A church body loses it orthodoxy only when it no longer applies Rom. 16:17, hence does not combat and eventually remove false doctrine, but tolerates it without reproof and thus actually grants it equal right with the truth” (p. 423 as above).

    Of course the liberals will always call for peace, but their peace comes at the cost of pure doctrine and right administration of the Sacraments. Sadly, some Confessionals among us also uphold such a false “peace” and are willing to condemn those who rightly identify the errors among us insisting that the ACELC is the cause of division, when all we have done is simply to point out to our Synod what our Synod is failing to address. The term “schismatic” has been incorrectly and inappropriately applied to the ACELC and others who have attempted simply to help our own Synod see her errors and correct them.

    Keeping the false “peace” is simply too great a cost for the abandonment of pure doctrine.

  18. @Rev. Richard A. Bolland #17

    Pr. Bolland,

    I have to imagine, that some of the angst of Confessionals against reform movements like the ACELC, is coming to terms with the insights of people like Sasse and Pieper. The psychological loss of an orthodox church body is made all the more painful, when the next question must follow so inexorably:

    “If I am found in a heterodox church body, what then shall I do?”

    When the answer is just a form of, “Well, our heterodoxy is better/more tolerable/etc., than everyone else’s heterodoxy,” it immediately begs the examination of the data. Who’s church body really is the most tolerably heterodox? If we resign to the idea that heterodoxy is the only alternative, then what human standard shall we apply to discern which doctrines are more or less tolerable to live with/without? It is a sad and depressing path, akin to the ethical doldrums of looking for the lesser of evils. Facing such a depressing landscape, I can understand why otherwise Confessional Lutherans would rather attack the messenger than deal with the message.

    The other choice, of course, is to strain for orthodoxy and refuse to settle for the best of bad solutions, or the lesser of respective evils. Folks like Sasse and Pieper were willing to be small, but pure. I wonder if their teaching and conviction are still part of the Synod thought process today… or if the general will has already transitioned to blindly and uncritically accepting the premise that the LCMS is best/most tolerable heterodox option we have.

  19. @Rev. Richard A. Bolland #17
    Very good comment from you, pr Bolland!
    I assent also to this sentence:
    Keeping the false “peace” is simply too great a cost for the abandonment of pure doctrine.

    But I would like to add, (and I am convinced you agree, the final question is not for you): Keeping the false “peace” is also contrary to God’s word. But who cares?

  20. Rev. Jakob Fjellander :
    Keeping the false “peace” is also contrary to God’s word. But the question is: Who cares about that?

    Rev. Fjellander,

    I fear that very few care in the big scheme of things. Moreover, based on inaction and tolerance, the appearance is certainly given that very few Ecclesiastical Supervisors care.

    On a separate note, thank you, Rev. Fjellander, for joining the discussion here on BJS. Your insight and comments are appreciated.

  21. Randy :
    Moreover, based on inaction and tolerance, the appearance is certainly given that very few Ecclesiastical Supervisors care.

    Is a Circuit Visitor an ecclesiastical supervisor?

  22. @Ted Crandall #24

    Great question Rev. Crandall. When I wrote my comment I had DPs/COP and the Praesidium in mind. The truth is, I have run across some very confessional CV’s, but they don’t seem to have any ability whatsoever to affect change in the CGM/CoWo crowd in their circuits. In fact, I have no proof, but I have been under the impression that in a few very specific cases that I was involved in, the CV(s) were given a gag order. Again, this is just the perception I had.

  23. @Brad #21

    Thank you. Well said. The devil will make orthodoxy, no less than anything else that is desirable, into an idol among idols. Orthodoxy, which is the most desirable thing, ought never to be identified with synodical triumph. It entails actual confession. I will say it again: I am encouraged by the ACELC.

  24. @Randy #23
    Thank you!
    “Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God” 2 Cor. 3:5

  25. David,

    I am gratified that you are encouraged by the ACELC. We are simply doing our best to do what orthodox Lutherans have always done: Proclaim the truth and call out error. The ACELC could also use some encouragement from the many of you who are encouraged by our work. You can do that simply by becoming Associate Members now (www.acelc.net) and working with your congregations/pastors to have them walk through the ACELC DVD and eventually join us in our good Lutheran work.

  26. Rev. Richard A. Bolland :Pr. Prentice,
    To absolutely no one’s surprise, I am not aware of any such invitation to any member of the ACELC. Such courtesy is not often accorded to “Whistle Blowers”.

    The ACELC won’t be invited, YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  27. I can assure you that once pastors and congregations understand what is actually at stake in our Synod by permitting error to remain among us, and once the obvious realization that the Synod will not seriously deal with the errors that divide us becomes a reality, then when 500 or 1000 congregations join their voices together with the ACELC we will most certainly be invited!

  28. Rev Jakob Fjellander :

    Jais H. Tinglund :

    My point, again, was that geographical concerns in connection with the eradication of the faith in an area would not be unique to an American context …

    Well, the examples of Denmark and Sweden shows that this “eradication” can happen, quite obviously it’s a risk for the LCMS too! And the basic problem is lack of church discipline which inevitably leads to unionism, because everyone can believe what he likes. Then they will do that, sooner or later.

    Yes! Yes! Exactly!

    The result of folks listening to Beth Moore and Rob Bell is the eradication of good teaching. People don’t spend that much time on Bible study which is why none of it should be coming from those who mix truth and error!

  29. @Rev. Richard A. Bolland #35
    then when 500 or 1000 congregations join their voices together with the ACELC we will most certainly be invited!

    Koinonia became a charade when GK holdovers were allowed on the committee… from there on it’s been a matter of delay and delay while working furiously to establish enough non Lutheran missions to reclaim the convention majority. TCN may not be officially funded but as long as it is an RSO, it will continue to subvert congregations.

    Apply to be an RSO, Pr. Bolland, and watch the fits!
    But you are more useful than TCN!

  30. RSO…interesting thought. Then again, I wouldn’t care to give the LCMS an opportunity to reject the ACELC as I suspect they most likely would. So there you have it…TCN is OK for RSO, but not the ACELC! See anything wrong with that picture?

  31. @Rev. Richard A. Bolland #38
    TCN is OK for RSO, but not the ACELC! See anything wrong with that picture?

    Lots! But not having been born or married into one of the Mizzoori dynasties, all I can do is kibitz. 🙁

    More than a couple of RSO’s are not a credit to LCMS. They should probably have a severe “pruning” along with what pass for “by-laws” and “CCM dictatorial remarks”. Anyone who thinks any of them are good for synod is probably running for something. (Women’s perks: I can kibitz because synodical politics cannot put me out of my job.) 😉

  32. Jais,

    We Missourians really do need to listen to you and hear what has become of orthodox Lutheranism in Denmark and to Pr. Fjellander from Sweden. If we are not vigilant, then we could well be looking at our own future. Perhaps it is part of our own triumphal self-view of American culture that we foolishly think it couldn’t happen here, but even our recent history in the LCMS has seen a near take over of the theology of Glory disguised as “Missional orientation” replete with a false doctrine of evangelism, and a corresponding lessening of doctrinal resolve across the board. The reality is that it most certainly can happen here! The incremental creep of heresy has been pretty well established since the Statement of the 44 (as the video shows) and it hasn’t gone away. One faithful Synodical President helps, but it most certainly doesn’t stop the progression as we have seen.

    So, Jais and Jakob, keep telling us! We need to hear you again and again. If there is to be true reform in Missouri, then it must come from the grass roots pastors and laymen. It will not come from the hierarchy in St. Louis with its COP managed, top-down plans to take ten years or so to begin to address the situation. If you believe that, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell ya.

  33. Rev. McCall :
    @Rev Jakob Fjellander #42
    RSO- Recognized Service Organization. An independent organization that, while not officially run by LCMS Inc., is still recognized and approved by the LCMS to serve within the church.
    TCN- Transforming Churches Network (http://transformingchurchesnetwork.org/)

    I clicked on the TCN link and I can’t find anything LCMS or even “Lutheran.” For that matter, I didn’t see Christ there either…

  34. Ted Crandall :

    Rev. McCall :@Rev Jakob Fjellander #42 RSO- Recognized Service Organization. An independent organization that, while not officially run by LCMS Inc., is still recognized and approved by the LCMS to serve within the church.TCN- Transforming Churches Network (http://transformingchurchesnetwork.org/)

    I clicked on the TCN link and I can’t find anything LCMS or even “Lutheran.” For that matter, I didn’t see Christ there either…

    Yet, my district funnels money to TCN every month (verified by their online financials). Here is a link to one of TCN’s videos from their Youtube site. While some may latch on to their message of outreach, those not familiar with TCN must also listen closely to their methodology. In this video (just 35 seconds in) LCMS Rev. Beyer describes how the historic liturgy just doesn’t work…………..

    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjaNv41t5Tg&w=854&h=510%5D

  35. Hello all, I tossed this out at another thread in BJS – in fact, some of my part of the discussion to this end at the Forum, may have been nudged by my recent discussions concerning ACELC and their desire to keep LCMS well. ACELC is making me think, or am I wasting my effort? Come on, any takers that this is good,

    We had our Circuit Forum for election of Circuit Visitor, and a few resolutions were passed. This is one little Circuit’s attempt to help bring back some “walking together” attitude. I will give the tone:

    01) Resolution to ask NID District to give a formal accounting of New Starts / New Believers, so we can review; since the Mission and Ministry Board was voted out. Where is the BOD of NID putting the moneies?

    02) Resolution to ask that the NID and the Board ask permission of the Circuit if a “New Start Mission” is a good idea and should be planted; so they do not collide with existing ministry. This would allow fellow pastors to review and work with District on a new mission before it is started and might collapse an existing Church.

  36. @Pastor David L. Prentice Jr. #48
    This is one little Circuit’s attempt to help bring back some “walking together” attitude. I will give the tone:…

    Looks like “common sense” sprouting in your Circuit!
    God bless the work.

    I’ve never figured out why district felt it knew best about mission starts, w/o consulting the men with “boots on the ground” in the area.
    A friend tells me that a traditional Lutheran church would probably fit the demographics in an area he’s familiar with, but this district “doesn’t do traditional” so a vaguely named CoWo is there instead.

    Somebody here should be asking whether our mission money is spent wisely!

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