1517. (That period after the date says a whole lot)

1517. is having their conference right now I guess.  What do the readers of Steadfast have to say about this graphic they posted on their facebook?  Why might a confessional Lutheran have a problem with this?  Is this statement unionistic?  What does it say about 1517 the organization that they choose to publicize their event in this way?

About Pastor Joshua Scheer

Pastor Joshua Scheer is the Senior Pastor of Our Savior Lutheran Church in Cheyenne, Wyoming. He is also the Editor-in-chief of Brothers of John the Steadfast. He oversees all of the work done by Steadfast Lutherans. He is a regular host of Concord Matters on KFUO. Pastor Scheer and his lovely wife Holly (who writes and manages the Katie Luther Sisters) have four children and enjoy living in Wyoming.

Comments

1517. (That period after the date says a whole lot) — 15 Comments

  1. “In Christ you own orthodox, catholic, and evangelical.” Sure, and Jesus can’t be separated from his word. To be Orthodox is to hold to his Word in its purity, to be Catholic is to hold to that same Word of Christ which the body of Christ in all times and places confesses, and to be evangelical is to be defined by the Gospel in faith and practice. There are heterodox bodies that certainly do not have this, and to comfort them in their error is to confuse law and gospel. I hesitate to pass judgment without context, but this demonstrates one of the hazards of social media theology.

  2. I simply would like to know what they mean. I have a few friends mixed up with this group. This graphic evrn if innocent causes confusion. Stop playing games. Say what you mean. Knowing some of the players…I am suspecting devious dishonesty. Prove me wrong.

  3. @Pastor David Emmons #2

    There certainly seems to be a lack of discretion involved, even should the terms be harmonized with the articles of faith. How is this building up the body of Christ? I certainly am not benefiting from it.

  4. @Pastor David Emmons #2 “I simply would like to know what they mean.” You aren’t supposed to know what they mean. It’s gnosticism/mysticism. You have to spring for a seminar in order to find out more.

  5. This does not speak of universalism to me. This statement says there can be believers in every church, true believers. Not saying every church is orthodox or catholic but that true believers IN Christ are orthodox and catholic. Visible and invisible church. And This is what they mean and posting that statement.

  6. @Joan #5

    But that is not what it says. You are trying to put the best construction on this, but with matters of doctrine– what people hear and read–we cannot do this. For individuals, we can, but a big mistake in Lutheranism is taking this to the point where everyone must not say a thing–no questioning allowed…no criticism…no, we must just shut up and take it. We MUST judge, and St.Paul says so, what is publicly taught, preached and stated in writing. We have to ask. We cannot leave this alone as souls are at stake here. Public speakers/teachers/preachers are open for criticism for what they posit. Sure we can be kind, and considerate, but still we MUST insist on asking for clarification, and if the person does not do so, or if they are unwilling, then we can denounce it as possible error if not tending toward heresy. I am sick and tired or the 8th commandment ploy! Read what Luther says in volumes about this subject.

  7. I was at the conference, although I had to leave before Dr. Mallinson spoke. But I have had him as a professor for two MA classes. He’s no unionist, nor do I think he’s speaking about the invisible/visible church dynamic in this case. I’d guess (but we can all see when the video gets posted) that he’s making the point that the word orthodox doesn’t belong to the Orthodox, that catholic doesn’t belong to the Catholics, etc., that those who are in Christ are orthodox, catholic, and evangelical in the truest sense of each word and we don’t need to give up using those words just because they have been taken by others. Isn’t that what Issues, Etc. says? Evangelical and Catholic?

  8. Here is a great comment by one of our authors from our Facebook post of this:

    “1517 didn’t post the context. They chose just these words. For some this is a tactic to be provocative, to show edginess or radicalness. And if someone points out that the quotation as it stands is false doctrine, then the originators can jump all over that person claiming to be misrepresented and that the critics don’t really understand. Meanwhile, the bare quote still stands as their choice to represent what they taught, and as it stands it is false doctrine.”

  9. False – “no matter what church you go to”

    False – you “own” (whatever that is) orthodox. No. There are individual Christians who are certainly not orthodox in their beliefs.

  10. @Dave #7
    Then why not just say it that way… like you just said? This is just plain crap… it’s aesoteric insider jargon that means if you don’t know your on the outside… want in? No one teaching should be that obtuse on purpose! It’s crap and it’s diabolical!

  11. First, again, the context of Dr. Mallinson’s quote is important and we don’t have it yet.

    Second, this is not to say that individual doctrinal beliefs and those of differing denominations aren’t important, but you failed to mention the “in Christ” part. Even if I hold to heterodox views on some topics, aren’t I still righteous and holy in Christ? That doesn’t excuse wrong beliefs. It’s emphasizing the blood of Jesus and the forgiveness of sins in Him, in spite of heterodoxy, not whitewashing those important things that Christians disagree about.

    Third, we can argue about the wisdom of posting 2 sentences without the context, but that hardly makes Dr. Mallinson or 1517 guilty of posting [aesoteric] insider jargon or diabolical crap.

  12. No,stating In Christ makes it worse. They are in Christ despite where they are… the heterodox church. It’s not safe to be. This statement as written gives a false impression that it’s okay and God doesn’t care— they own it.

  13. @David Emmons #14

    That’s not the point he seems to be making. The conference was centered on the Theology of the Cross and the sweetness of the Gospel. That doesn’t mean that Dr. Mallinson or anyone else there thinks that there aren’t significant issues in heterodoxy.

    @Ted Badje #15

    Ironically, that’s what the conference was about: Christ and Him crucified, regardless of your past, regardless of your performance, regardless of your misunderstandings about other significant things, Christ for you and for all who cling to Him by faith.

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