Professor John Pless speaks on the topic of Women’s Ordination

Below are some videos of Professor John Pless teaching laity on the topic of women’s ordination.  Prof. Pless is the co-editor with Pres. Harrison on the volume (now in the 3rd edition) entitled “Women Pastors” from CPH.

 

 

The lectures were given at Peace Lutheran Church in Bremerton, WA.   As the recent NW District convention Q & A session revealed, there are some people in the LCMS who do not consider God’s Word authoritative on the issue.

 

 

Part 1:
[jwplayer mediaid=”22459″ width=”600″ height=”350″]

 

Part 2:
[jwplayer mediaid=”22461″ width=”600″ height=”350″]

 

Part 3:
[jwplayer mediaid=”22462″ width=”600″ height=”350″]


Comments

Professor John Pless speaks on the topic of Women’s Ordination — 21 Comments

  1. Good stuff, thanks for sharing Pr. Scheer.

    The book has really been flying off the shelves at CPH and has become extremely popular particularly in church bodies under pressure from the Lutheran World Federation to ordain women. In fact, I’ve been told by more than a few church body leaders that the only reason they finally ordained a “token” woman pastor was to keep LWF dollars flowing toward them. The LWF is rather ruthless about basically extorting the false practice out of church bodys.

    This book is very strong medicine that provides an excellent antidote to the left-wing, feminist clap-trap that has been choking the life out of Western Lutheran Churches for many years.

    Some older folks in our church body, who have never gotten over the Seminex era still are pining for women’s ordination. The only younger voice I’ve heard advocte for it is Matthew Becker who of course has also “come out” if you will in favor of the ELCA’s position on homosexuality, which is simply the consistent path to take once you swallow the left wing theology that underpins the ordination of women.

  2. It makes no rational sense, to me, for anybody in the LCMS to be pushing for women’s ordination. They already have it, in spades, with other “Lutheran” groups, so if it’s that important to you, why don’t you join one of them? Why does EVERY Lutheran group have to embrace it? What happened to “diversity?”

    The antidote, imo, is not to argue hermeneutics, but to argue authority. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths some will go to in order to make a text stand on its head. It like, if the Bible doesn’t agree with you, give the it death of 1000 qualifications, re-invent the historical context, shoehorn ambiguity into the greek etymology, and shazam! Buddhism is Biblical!

    Ultimately, those arguing that Bible permits women’s ordination are far out on a limb, and they know it. NONE of them accept inerrancy, let alone the AC’s statements on scripture. If we take our dying stand on the truth and authority of scripture, those wanting to bend it to their fancy will give up and join the denomination which reflects their actual faith, which is not in God’s Word.

  3. Miquel, fortunately, the overwhelmingly vast majority of folks who are pro-women’s ordination in The LCMS, like Marie Meyer and crew, are in their seventies. ’nuff said.

    They dote on Matthew Becker, who is their last and truly only hope, for their agenda in The LCMS. He’s simply a puppet of the old Seminexers in the Synod.

    I don’t really think it is too long before he heads off into membership in the ELCA, which is where he belongs.

  4. @Miguel #2

    Just a thought– there are some Lutheran groups that technically espouse a doctrine of Biblical innerrancy, but also ordain women. The new North American Lutheran Church, and the Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ (NALC, and LCMC, respectively) are both in that situation.

    I think the new batch of American Anglicans are also in that boat (ACNA) though they are hotly debating the ordination of women to the prebyterate/priesthood versus the episcopate.

    Cheers.

  5. @Brad #4
    Thank you Brad. I was aware of the NALC and LCMC, but under the impression that they do not accept the doctrine of Biblical inerrancy, given the people I know in those denominations do not. But I suppose plenty of lay persons in the LCMS do not as well. I was pretty sure, though, that the ACNA was not open on that issues whatsoever, given that similar controversies were what led to their separation from the Episcopal church to begin with.

  6. Brad, I’m not sure what you mean by “technically espouse inerrancy,” but neither NALC or LCMS hold to inerrancy..

  7. Rev. Paul T. McCain :Miquel, fortunately, the overwhelmingly vast majority of folks who are pro-women’s ordination in The LCMS, like Marie Meyer and crew, are in their seventies. ’nuff said.
    They dote on Matthew Becker, who is their last and truly only hope, for their agenda in The LCMS. He’s simply a puppet of the old Seminexers in the Synod.
    I don’t really think it is too long before he heads off into membership in the ELCA, which is where he belongs.

    Paul:

    Would you care to unpack what is meant by “fortunately” folks like me are in their seventies. “.nuff said.”

    I would not like to conclude you think it “fortunate” that I am as old as I am and may not be around too much longer.

    Marie Meyer

  8. Marie,

    Glad to see you are reading BJS.

    Don’t be offended by Paul’s comment, Just the other day he looked at me and said “Man, Rossow, you are a big fat slob and will probably drop dead from a coronary before Harrison’s second term!” 🙂

  9. Oh, most definitely not, Marie. I wish you a long and healthy life, of course.

    I simply meant that it is encouraging to note that those in our LCMS who have been most stridently pro-women’s ordination are of an older generation and we have seen in the past fifteen to twenty years the rise of new generations of extremely articulate advocates of the Lutheran Church’s historic commitment to the Scriptures on the issue of the ordination of women, particularly among young men and women in their twenties and thirties.

    Given that I recently received AARP’s invitation to join their organization and start getting my “senior citizen” discounts, I do not count myself any longer as among the “younger generation.”

    PTM

  10. Rev. Paul T. McCain :Oh, most definitely not, Marie. I wish you a long and healthy life, of course.
    I simply meant that it is encouraging to note that those in our LCMS who have been most stridently pro-women’s ordination are of an older generation and we have seen in the past fifteen to twenty years the rise of new generations of extremely articulate advocates of the Lutheran Church’s historic commitment to the Scriptures on the issue of the ordination of women, particularly among young men and women in their twenties and thirties.
    Given that I recently received AARP’s invitation to join their organization and start getting my “senior citizen” discounts, I do not count myself any longer as among the “younger generation.”
    PTM

    Now I am “stridently” pro-women’s ordination. But then we have been down this path before.

    Marie

  11. It would be better for everyone if those that support the Anti-Biblical view of Woman as pastors go to the ELCA or the break off groups where they can be with like minded people.

    They would be right at home with those that ignore what God word teaches.

  12. Michael :
    It would be better for everyone if those that support the Anti-Biblical view of Woman as pastors go to the ELCA or the break off groups where they can be with like minded people.

    That’s really the bottom line.

  13. Paul:

    I was willing to give you a pass on the use of the term “fortunately” in regard to persons past the age of seventy.

    But then it was followed with…”I simply meant that it is encouraging to note that those in our LCMS who have been most stridently pro-women’s ordination are of an older generation…”

    I do not know how you define the term “strident,” but given that I was placed among those “fortunately” to be in our seventies I suspect I am now among the “most stridently pro-women’s ordination.” Even if I were promoting the ordination of women use of the term “strident” is a judgment on your part that has no basis.

    From the time I was elected by a national LCMS convention to a synodical position in 1975 persons with whom I worked have yet to claim I conducted myself in manner that would be considered “strident.”

    As to your question, we’ve gone round and round on this in the past. Use of yes and no questions to dodge dealing with statements you have made do not interest me. I have letters in my files sent to you in which I clearly state what I am about in the matter of our being brother and sister in Christ.

  14. Marie, you seem quite perturbed that I asserted that you are one of the persons who have been involved, for years, in advocating for change in the Missouri Synod’s position on the ordination of women and then when you are asked a straightforward question about the subject you refuse to answer.

    That’s puzzling to me. I don’t understand why.

    Can you help me understand?

  15. Paul:

    There is nothing puzzling about my calling attention to use of the term strident.

    After years of going back and forth with you I have given up on helping you to understand that my concern is for the changes and inconsistencies in how our church defines God’s prefall order for the relationship of all men to all women in all areas of their life.

    Currently I am working through all notes in The Lutheran Study Bible that refer to “God’s order” and or “order of creation.” In addtion I am reviewing years of articles clipped from the CTQ and the Concordia Journal on God’s design for the relationship of man and woman. The conversation will continue when I compare these notes with CTCR reports on the subject beginning in 1969 and continuing to 2009.

    It’s a work in progress and, as you noted, I am not getting any younger so I need to keep at it.

  16. Is a written text of the Pless lectures available. The audio on the lectures is not clear, at least for a person of my age.

    Marie Meyer

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. You can also subscribe without commenting.