Real-World Religion and the World of Warcraft, featuring Pastor Fisk

From time to time BJS has featured videos from Rev. Jonathan Fisk’s “Worldview Everlastingyoutube channel, where being relevant and technological doesn’t mean backing down from classic Lutheran theology. But what many people don’t know about Pastor Fisk (and not a few other LCMS pastors) is that they lead a double life. By day they are mild mannered proclaimers of the Gospel, but by night they “roflstomp” through the fantastic world of Azeroth, as trolls and orcs, elves and gnomes, while playing the “massively multiplayer online role playing game” of World of Warcraft.

“WoW” (as it has come to be known) is the most successful MMORPG, a behometh in the gaming field, with over 5 million gamers worldwide logging into a tremendous fantasy-genre-world where you can spend time cooking, training up your seamstress skills to sew a magic carpet, playing the market of the auction house, or delving into 10-player only “raid dungeons” to overthrow old fallen gods and new demonic forces which threaten to wipe out life as we – er, they – know it.

This week, Pastor Fisk was interviewed by WoW Insider, the official news site for the game. In the regular feature “15 Minutes of Fame,” WoW Insider takes up the question of “Gaming and Religion,” with Pastor Fisk (as a confessional Lutheran!) providing the answers. Here’s what Lisa Poisso had to say about her interview with Pastor fisk:

“Over the years, 15 Minutes of Fame has been through more than a couple of aborted conversations with pastors about the intersection of real-world religion and the World of Warcraft. Whether the questions get a little too pointed, or the potential for reaction from the pews gets a little too hot … Whatever the case, the interviews don’t make it through to print. Until now. Hats off to Fisk for what’s turned out to be a tour de force of an interview examining one man and one denomination’s insights on the convergence of gaming, pop culture and WoW.”

You can read the interview (and see what Pastor Fisk looks like as a Troll and just how big a dragon he’s not afraid to take on) by following this link.

About Norm Fisher

Norm was raised in the UCC in Connecticut, and like many fell away from the church after high school. With this background he saw it primarily as a service organization. On the miracle of his first child he came back to the church. On moving to Texas a few years later he found a home in Lutheranism when he was invited to a confessional church a half-hour away by our new neighbors.

He is one of those people who found a like mind in computers while in Middle School and has been programming ever since. He's responsible for many websites, including the Book of Concord, LCMSsermons.com, and several other sites.

He has served the church in various positions, including financial secretary, sunday school teacher, elder, PTF board member, and choir member.

More of his work can be found at KNFA.net.

Comments

Real-World Religion and the World of Warcraft, featuring Pastor Fisk — 43 Comments

  1. I’ve never done the computer version, but I’ve done a lot of role play games. It’s been while. My clerics and magic users need to have the dust blown off of them.

  2. Great interview (at least from a confessional Lutheran standpoint–I don’t know much about WoW). I confess I have a bad habit of reading comments on articles and becoming dismayed at the ignorance in the world. This time, for once, I was not sorry I read some of them. Seriously, check it out! This is the most positive response I’ve ever seen about anything religious on a non-religious forum.

    From one commenter: “If I were ever to convert to a religion, this would probably be the guy to get me to do it.”

    There you go. Well done, Rev Fisk!

  3. I don’t know much about this particular gaming website, but most video game website comments tend to make the worst BJS look like the model of decorum.

    The article linked to Pastor Fisk’s youtube page. I’m sure more than a few readers will find their way there. All without ham fisting some World of Warcraft outreach but by being just another player. Vocation at it’s finest!

  4. I really hate to be the kiljoy here, but this needs to be said. For one, I appreciate and enjoy Pastor Fisk’s webcasts, but I simply disagree with him on this, along with some of the comments here. In my late teens and early twenties, I was emersed in role playing games. In the beginning, I started out as always being the good guy. Eventually, I always ended up being the evil mages, warriors and such, a place where my old adam could run unchecked. It’s just role playing, I thought. This also led to the experimentation with the occult, and the icing on the cake with me walking away from Christ, this happens with alot of christian and non-christian role players.

    When Christ convicted me of my wickedness and brought me back to my baptism, I realized I couldn’t have one foot in one world and one foot in the other. Scripture taught me that sin is sin, witchcraft is witchcraft, whether in a make believe world or the real one. Wheter your a good mage or warrior, or an evil mage or warrior. So I reject the Valparaiso/Ferde theological acceptence of role playing games, and side with how an “Old” Missiorian would see this: this is EVIL and straight from the pits of HELL, and should be avoided.

  5. Other than just being a big waste of time I have enjoyed role playing games ever since they came out as text games in the late 70’s, early 80’s. It lets my mind go into neutral when life infringes. Escapism. Yep. Never did get involved in D&D but from Zork on I was enthralled. Never did play online MMORPHs. Having to good a time with mystery and role playing games on the PC.

  6. There is a risk in role playing games. There is a risk in getting up in the morning. [Staying in bed isn’t too safe either. “People die there.”, according to one tot who was reluctant to go at the prescribed time for her.]

    OTOH, Rev. Fisk has had an opportunity to witness to his Lutheran Christian faith in a forum that would not otherwise have listened. I’m impressed at the favorable comments he got. As long as he “keeps things separate” and continues to know what’s Real Life and what is a game, he should be alright.
    ______________________

    My teenagers (pre computer) brought home sci fi novels, some single, some lengthy series. I read everything they brought into the house; they didn’t worry about it since I had not voiced the kind of comments that would send the things under the mattress.

    I did comment, though, on the differences between the fantasy worlds and RL, (as “revfisk” puts it). When I discussed one of the more worthless ones, that son replied, “Never mind, Mom, they’re borrowed and I’m getting the other guy hooked on Narnia”. (The ‘other guy’ moved away and we saw no more of his series, so I deduced that my son was not all that interested.)

    I think I had an advantage with the print in awareness of what was coming into the house. My grandson plays games on an “X-box” and I wonder if his parents know what the game is.

  7. While I am not much of an RPG player, I find that there’s a lot of misconceptions about what RPGs are. I blame this mostly on horror stories of people who got too sucked into fantasy RPGs. I don’t doubt it can get bad for some people, but that’s not the norm.

    Below is a link podcast that talks about RPGs, what they are and a few of the various games that are out there. Short version: RPGs can go way beyond a fantasy genre and can have any setting one can imagine. They are a collaborative story telling method that lands somewhere between “cops and robbers” or “house” that kids play and full on, scripted movie making.

    The talk about RPGs starts at the 29 minute mark.

    http://c1.libsyn.com/media/18853/20070522.mp3?nvb=20100923233654&nva=20100924234654&sid=e84626dd56b44391867d7984154bf517&l_sid=18853&l_eid=&l_mid=1736501&t=0ed86af7082242fbcd798

  8. The issue is not RPG’s, it’s the involvement of witchcraft and other occult themes that accompany many of these games. Also, just because satanic arts are joined together with make believe and role playing, doesn’t lessen it’s evil and the effect it can have on people.

  9. Michael,
    Did you try the first link up there, and watch “revfisk’s” video “Dead man rising”?

    Try it!

  10. @Helen #11

    I watch them weekly and really enjoy them and I’ll continue to watch them. I just disagree with his involvement with WoW. The question I have; if pornographic scenes were involved with WoW or similar RPGs, would it no longer be sinful just because it’s make believe?

    I do believe that Pastor Fisk is trying to reach groups of people who otherwise would never hear the truth about Jesus Christ and I could be blowing this way out of water, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

  11. On a lighter note, I just got done watching Pastor Fisk’s latest video, I believe it’s my favorite one yet. Well done Pastor Fisk!

  12. @Michael Mapus #13

    Michael,
    I do share your concerns about the value of these “games”.
    I suppose they are the logical extension of the sci-fi and TV I have used and now abandoned. The values of the writers were not mine and they became too obtrusive.

    I hope “revfisk” is doing some good by being in that medium and doing no harm to himself or impressionable souls who might think it’s OK because he does it.

    I did like the last “World Everlasting” video and look forward to the next one. 🙂

  13. Wow, I thought I was the only confessional Lutheran type who played.

    I wish I could still afford it, but times are tough. $15 a month is hard to justify with a kid at Hillsdale College and a 3% pay cut this year. I also had to set some temperance guidelines for myself: Rule #1 was never play in the presence of my wife.

    Here is my favorite character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azgalor&cn=Namo

    I wish I could afford to play.

  14. Okay, I am the parent of a soon to be 13 year old, who watches Rev Fisk’s You Tube. It’s on the family favorites bar!

    When his Mum, shares one w/him. My son, (who is turning 13 in a week, this would be the Pastoral hatchling) asked me a question…I have no clue how to answer.

    “I know what WOW is, a Pastor plays it?! Rev Fisk plays that?
    Mummy…what is the difference between WoW and a Ouija Board? You said those were bad, & we shouldn’t play w/them. You guys said, you don’t know who is playing w/you or what is going on that you can’t see. That’s what you & Daddy said no, but Pastor Fisk does, so why can’t I?”

    Okay folks, what the difference here? I have no clue, never done either, mental pix vs video pixal pix?

    Is there a difference, if so, what is it….the 13 year old is waiting for an answer. Why can a Pastor play these games & he can’t?!

  15. Dutch — you aren’t clear here .. Is he asking to play a Ouija board? Is he comparing such a board with WoW? Bringing the Ouija into the question just confuses the issue .. have you compared them yourself to keep him away from WoW, or ?

  16. Norm,
    My 13 year old, compares what Pastor’s do when they aren’t Pastors, to what Pastor’s say, when they are. He has W.v.E, on our favorite’s bar. Norm, his parents have forbidden W.o.W, Halo, Ouija, etc. My son, refuted Ouija, in his WELS 6th grade class last year. Because, kids in their class, owned & played w/one W/ ADULTS. In LCMS & WELS.

    Norm, Confessional parents, have few avenues, that appeal to what kids like, Rev Fisk does. YouTube proves it. But this, came w/no disclaimer, just a link, to which some parents, fight against on a daily basis as to why their kids are different & are parented differently. If your willing to appeal, you have got to be willing to explain, when questions are asked. My son is waiting, not my husband & I, but our son/s. We can cut them off, Rev Fisk isn’t called to be the good steward of our boys, we are. And it is our answer, as Christian Confessional Lutheran parents, that our kids’ hear.

    I doubt we’re the only ones, Norm. The question is posed for Rev. Fisk, not BJS. BJS just posted it. Our sons’ read it here. It’s here they watch for an answer & so do my husband & I. Age & discernment appropriate, is key. You appeal, you must be able to explain, w/o being defensive. It is hard enought to moniter what my kids hear & see their friends, play & do. I’ve heard of this before, said no, but now a Pastor they are aware of does. Why is it okay for a Pastor to play, but kid’s can’t?

  17. @Dutch #18

    You said it yourself: “Age and discernment appropriate is key.”

    I doubt Rev. Fisk was gaming at 13 (not many games, for starters).
    The difference is about 20 years (and the knowledge on the adult’s part that it is not REAL LIFE).
    You’re not giving them hard liquor either, are you, Dutch? Do they understand why?
    Pastors discuss their favorite drinks and “cigars vs pipes” here, so Pastors do that, too.
    In another couple of years, your sons’ “friends” will be having keg parties with the parents conveniently out for the evening so they can deny knowledge of it. What are you going to say about parties, where it’s understood that there will be underage drinking?
    [Been there; had a very frustrated son who claimed I “ruined his social life” because I wanted some adults present where he went and they weren’t. After a kid who passed out drunk on the driveway at one home was run over and killed by another kid who didn’t see him there, I heard less about it.]
    Frankly, I don’t see where a kid has time for gaming, if he’s trying to make college prep grades.
    Mine are Eagle Scouts, frowned on by some, but it meant a lot of adult supervision and a chance to get out of the city once in awhile. They also played in the school band, and when they were 16 they had parttime jobs and saved for college.

    As Rob pointed out, games also cost some money.

    You didn’t ask me about this, but I raised a Pastor, too (although neither of us boxed him in by telling the world when he was 12 years old.)

  18. Oh, Pastor Fisk emphasized in his interview the difference between a game and REAL LIFE.
    That is sometimes hard for even bright teenagers to grasp.
    It’s like going to an intense movie and coming out feeling so much like you’re still in that other world that you’ve forgotten where you parked the car.

    Ouija, as I remember it, is not a game. To make it work, you are supposed to believe that a “spirit” moves it. I wouldn’t go there at any age.

  19. Helen,
    Read the original article, it’s two pages.
    Pay close attention, to the answer to the question,
    “Do you think WoW is appropriate for teenagers? Younger children?” You can find it at
    wow.joystick.com
    “15 Minutes of Fame: When WoW meet real world Religion” parts 1 & 2, just for grins, read the first two pages of comments. Then look back at post # 19.

  20. helen :
    Ouija, as I remember it, is not a game. To make it work, you are supposed to believe that a “spirit” moves it. I wouldn’t go there at any age.

    There in lies one big difference. With WoW you’re never asked to believe that your computer is conjuring up real spells or demons.

  21. For all the talk about RPGs here though, I think that’s missing the forrest for the trees. The real story here is how does the Church reach the culture? This is a question that many in America have attempted to answer with church growth, contemporary music, felt needs, etc.

    Pastor Fisk has gone an entirely different direction and one that is quite Lutheran: vocation. He takes his vocation as a theologian seriously and has taken the time to study the Scriptures. He also takes his vocation as a WoW player seriously and doesn’t try to sanctify it by being overt as a church growther would. Instead, he calmly, patiently and unapologetically lets it be known what his faith is when the opportunity arises.

    It’s not something that will grow his specific parish. It’s not going to make him rich or famous. It’s not something everyone has the skill to do as well as he has. But Pastor Fisk has hit the nail on the head. Judging from the comments on Joystick, this time it worked wonderfully to get people thinking about what Christianity actually is. Next time he might be successful, or he might not. But he speaks God’s Word and the Word will never return to Him empty.

  22. @Dutch #21
    Pay close attention, to the answer to the question,
    “Do you think WoW is appropriate for teenagers? Younger children?” You can find it at
    wow.joystick.com

    OK. Not having a teen, presently, I plead guilty to not paying much attention to age recommendations.

  23. Helen,
    I don’t how to indent, quotes, this was done, outside my knowledge. However, if I could have know how to…I would have.

  24. Helen,
    Sorry for the above at #25, we just put said issues, to bed. Did you read the entire joystick article? Is 5 different than 13, or 30? Michael Mapus, had it right, back in #5 & #10. The 13 year old asked, where does it say pretend” is okay, but real isn’t. I don’t know where it does, do you? What do ya tell a 13 year old?
    The world doesn’t think anything we believe is real, let alone the ‘dark stuff’, Mummy.”

    Read the joystick.com 15 Minutes, 2 pages. Then repost. Not having a teen, has nothing to do with what was said the original 2 pages of that article. My kid caught it, let’s see what adults read the whole thing & see what he saw.

  25. @Dutch et al.

    Being out of the country, I have not really been able to follow any of this up till now. I hope I can give at least some small help, even though it is clear that we disagree.

    To answer the question, “What does a parent who does not let his/her child play video games say when the child wants to play the games, and says it must be ok because the pastors plays?”

    The answer: “What is is the fourth commandment? … What does this mean?” After discussing this catechetical truth (which is always part of the families lessons), a parent does well to then go on and explain why you as a parent believe that playing video games will not help him at his age.

    I would, however, encourage you to approach this from an issue of time-management, self-discipline and media literacy. Combing the concept all video games with the ouija board is not quite accurate. But I would fully understand and stand behind any parent who has made up his/her mind that the best approach to parenting is to not allow video games in the home. Whether I agree with the approach doesn’t matter. For example, some parents never let their children watch TV. Some parents let them watch from age 1 on. Some parents never discuss real life issues in front of their kids, others do. Some parents encourage their kids to play sports, or musical instruments. Others don’t. And all parents are free to make the choices they believe are best, provided the Word of God is not maligned. However, parents are not free it impress their parenting decisions on others or others’ children.

    If some answers are truly be better than others, they are still matters of vocation. It would be wrong for the Church to make binding laws concerning any such adiaphora – concerning anything not commanded or forbidden. Discerning Christians can and will make differing decisions about books, TV, movies, music, cuisine, liquor, soda-pop, exercise, and any other number of 1st article gifts of creation. They can all be abused, *and* they are all sanctified by the Word of God and prayer (as St. Paul tells us.)

    However, ALL Christian children MUST be taught that obedience to parents in matters of this earth is obedience to the Lord. Have your son read this: “Pastor Fisk says listen to you mother. She is there because God loves you and has given you to her to raise as His own. She is doing her best, and it is your duty to love her and obey her for that. It will be a blessing to you! It doesn’t matter what I (Pastor Fisk) think about video games. It doesn’t matter if the entire world plays and you are the only one who does not. That is not the real Spiritual issue. If you will learn from me anything, then first learn the Word of God: “Honor your father and your mother.” ”

    I hope that helps some. 🙂

  26. Dutch,
    I went back and read the two pages again, and I have just read Pastor Fisk, above.
    I don’t think I can improve on the above.

    Oh, it’s true that a large part of the world doesn’t believe in Christianity which is real.

    Many of them do believe in “spirits” which inhabit places, or things like trees.
    Christians do not believe that kind of “spirits” (or “dark stuff”) are real.

    Personally, I think a degree of maturity helps to keep things separate.
    And/or (as I said above, I think) being involved with your child so that you can sort out the false bits and talk about why they are false. LOT more work with computerized things than with books, IMHO! I might very well want to defer that.

    It sounds to me as if Pr. Fisk’s daughter wants to please him by playing his game, but only about once in three months. I hope he is playing other things with her, that she likes better, in between times.

    God bless all!

    But I, (Deo gratias!) am not raising either of your families! Been there!

    [Still haven’t found a 3X polo shirt with Granpa to replace my “Antique Lutheran”, ‘revfisk’. (It says they run small so I am making allowances.) I would have one with the new LCMS symbol even more happily, though.]

  27. Can’t do anything about the LCMS symbol. I can try to do something about the Grandpa’s shirts, but not for about two weeks. Would you remind me?

  28. @Revfisk #29
    I will try to remember. I liked the one you had on, in the last video, I think.
    “Grandpa”, but not too large. 🙂

    No, I suppose CPH will market the other symbol….

  29. @Daniel Bergquist #22

    I played a similar game for years, it is called “Everquest.” While I was never asked to conjure up real magic with spells, I was asked to take a drink off a beer every time the group killed a frost giant. By the end of the raid something had been “conjured” and it wasn’t at all magical for me. :^)

    Just providing some levity if folks don’t mind. 😉

  30. Good Mornin’ everyone,
    Here’s the rub w/this stuff, our family has. Believe it or not, Celtic Druids own homes, are neighbors, and your kids see alot on solstices & SamHain, etc. Oh we have a couple in our little neighborhood. Real live Celtic druids. Now, quite a few years ago, they mowed/cut a “copy” of Glastonbury Tor, in their backyard. Our friends, who happen to abut their property, caught the floor show that is the Summer Solstice. Hooded robes, chanting, dagger & crystal ball held up etc. Yes, a kid or two did witness a bit, but were hastily taken inside. Guess who they called? Guess who had to explain, what it was, and try to attempt to advise how to explain it to our kids?

    We happen to know an Officer for our town, who was a family friend of mine. He knew my parents & I. While doing his rounds, he stumbled on what looked like a coven altar ceremony aftermath. He came over, asked my husband if he could borrow me to take a look at something he found behind the local cemetery. It was a dud, oh it totally looked like what the PD thought at first blush, but it was easy to see, it was the cemetery dump, that had been recently bobcatted, and a small deer lost a game of chicken w/a car. Just a coinkidink. But, PD’s, watch that type of thing very carefully, really bad things happen when you have active covens in your area folks. Items, livestock, & unattended family pets, do tend to go missing, at certain times of the year, & that is just creatures, we’ve all read news stories about individuals, missing for same reasons.

    Druids are real, witches & warlocks are real. The Occult, is nothing to play w/and we know full well how very real it is.
    Who & what they worship are most real. We know that, so did Saul. The lost do not fear or believe in literal hell or it’s minions. A third of Heaven’s Angels fell, we know full well, this realm is very real, and most active, we just can’t see it, we just see the effects.

    This realm, is anything but a game or toy to be played with, let alone partake in.
    Any military, special ops or troop, knows their enemy, they can see them & know where they are, what they have, and how they fight.

    Our enemy dwells in a realm, we cannot see, (praise be on High we can’t) and one weapon in their quiver, is that you can play without/pay. You can’t, Saul didn’t, and those who choose to, gamble with more than they can afford to pay or give, are no execption. The tithe just may not be instant. Christ’s enemy, has time, short in immortal terms, very long in human ones.

    Rev. Fisk, please email us privately, my son has written a letter to you, he wanted us to post here at BJS. He was told no. Great object lesson for Matthew’s course of discourse, shall we say. Thank you for your post though, my husband & I thank you. But, it won’t fix the issue w/the 13 year old. He’s seen it’s real, and knows it’s no game for anyone to play.

  31. In the LCMS, I know of a Pastor, who “managed” certain situations pretaining to this. When I was little, he came & gave a presentation of “that realm” at our church. My parents did even want to get out of the car, because we had a shrub bank by it.

    His name is Rev. Paul Schoeder, Our Shepherd Lutheran Church, Greendale, WI. He doesn’t do that anymore, he doesn’t really speak on it anymore. Who would if you saw what this Pastor saw & did what he did?! But I’m sure, even if he isn’t as spry as he used to be, would impart a bit of info, on someone who would ask. Word to the wise though, be prepared for anything, and it’s nothing compared to what you think you know.

  32. Rev. Fisk,
    You are soooo blest. How did you like the UK?! Saw the video on K.C. Cambridge. Did you get to see the bridge & hear the story? What did you think? Been to both Oxford & Cambridge (& many elsewhere in UK), but C. is by far & away my favorite universtiy town. I hope you enjoy your time hopping the pond, I relish the time I spend when I can.
    Blessings,
    Dutch

  33. I have three kids. My 5-year-old has a level 3 druid. Hunting the mountain cougars in Thunder Bluff wigs her out so much she can only hunt about one every three months –“revfisk’s” 15 minute interview on another site

    I wonder if the five year old isn’t pretty smart here,
    given this morning’s news from the UK?

    Druids recognized as religion for first time in UK http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39472198/ns/world_news-europe/

  34. Helen,
    Tread lightly here, & think. Parenting is not the issue I raised here. Nor is Pastor Fisk’s.
    The issue I raised, is that Pastor Fisk was not interviewed, as a run of the mill gamer. He was approached, interviewed & spoke as a Holder of the Office, & thru that Office. That is the issue here. Be VERY careful Helen. Read Pastor Fisk’s post in # 27 again.
    He sees this as adiphoria. I do not. He is a holder of the Divine Office, with training & instruction I & you, do not have. His parenting is off limits, as is mine. The question is about what a holder of the Office says publically thru that Office.

    I know it is a religion, it’s in my own backyard, well…close by a neighbor’s anyway. Shocking the UK just recognised it, but that is for Charity Law. Helen, that is just like a not for profit law, here. It’s been an official religion for decades (centuries) in the UK, & our Military officially recognises it too. It isn’t pretend. It’s a religion. Not a game, it & it’s followers worship the enemy of Christ. That is never a game to play, for anyone, it is not a game, it’s real.
    But NO WAY, do you have any grounds to call into question his parenting. He DID NOT DO IT TO ME. DO NOT DO IT TO HIM.

  35. Helen,
    Here is the title of an article, written by Lt. Col. Robert L. Maginnis, for Military Readiness Project. The article is titled,
    Brewing Up Trouble: WICCA and the US Military.

    The link doesn’t work if I type it, just Google it, & you’ll be able to find it. It’s a pretty acurate & basic explaination. It’s interesting to see, a Lt. Col. state it is a huge issue, amongst Military personnel. Neat article, from a certain perspective.

  36. Avocation (hobby) is the key word – which seems to be missed.

    Lutherans understand that God serves our neighbor and us through ordinary means and vocations – and in this case avocations.

    Good job Pr. Fisk with being in the world but not of it.

  37. @Swede&Rob Thanks!

    @Dutch You are very correct in understanding the dark dangers of Wicca, druidism and all forms of paganism, as well as seeing how active they are in our world. However, you are quite mistaken in thinking that World of Warcraft contains or participates in any such thing. By confusing the two, I’m afraid you will do far more harm than good to your hearers ability to discern.

    @Helen Druids in World of Warcraft do not practice druidism. They are cows that can turn into cats and owls and shoot moonbeams. What my five year old does not like is getting attacked by pretend cats. I don’t blame her. 🙂 So, for now she plays “Wii Pet Resort,” where she feeds hamsters and gives them baths.

    If Christians cannot learn to distinguish fantasy from reality, we will never be able to deal faithfully with reality for we will be trapped in our own fantasies (which will be far more deceptive than video games, which, at least, are on a screen.)

    The Lord is with you in your baptism, and that’s no pretending!

  38. Rev Fisk,
    Thanks for posting on this archived thread. #1 son, the Pastoral Hatchling, has forgotten his request. The info I posted, is what I was taught in Confirmation, let’s just call it the very early ’80’s. My Grandparents & Mum, heard the relatively the same thing, about Halloween, back in the mid ’40’s, from their Lutheran Pastor. Pastor Paul Schoeder, as I said, did talks on it in the early ’70s. Avoiding it, as a sheep, had nothing to do with pietism, it has to do w/the fact, no sheep is smart enough to discern, that well, in game or reality. Those lines blurr much to easily for many. Your a Pastor, you’ve had years of instruction & training, sheep haven’t. You can safely tread further into thickets, than I can.

    We looked up some of the commands, for items mentioned. Reverence of Christ, follows in all, not just some. That’s a sticking point, for us, & for the 13 year old. Try seeing this thru our son’s eyes, his last 3 Pastors, his Grandma, both his parents, have taught him to avoid this type of thing, & the gambit of reasons why. He sees those very terms, in his backyard. He knows God’s Word doesn’t state only real, not pretend. He knows when a word is said, out or from that Office, it is to be listened to. But…yours contridicted what he’s hear from 3 Pastors, 1 Grandparent + that GP’s old Pastor, plus his parents. Minus one for me & my husband. Can you see the conundrum?
    &now for something completely different…I sure do hope you enjoyed your time in the UK. Thought I saw a bit of Wales in the last W.V.E post. My favorite place to visit, but boy do I wish we had more people over there. They have such a great need, and seem to be crying out for us, don’t they?

  39. Michael Mapus :The issue is not RPG’s, it’s the involvement of witchcraft and other occult themes that accompany many of these games. Also, just because satanic arts are joined together with make believe and role playing, doesn’t lessen it’s evil and the effect it can have on people.

    There are even good confessional Lutheran Pastor’s wives out there making art based on these types of virtual worlds (well me, anyway). I don’t feel any less confessional, doctrinal or sound of spirit because of the games.

  40. WoW was fun when my son was in middle school. We both twinked a couple of resto shamans (29 bracket) and had a blast running flags together. Now, however, ~ I won’t have the game in the house. It’s too easy to become addicted to for one and it becomes a huge time sink if you’re not careful.

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