Post-Final Version of The United List

I found this on The 2010 Convention Site .. seems there is a post-final version of The United List


As reported earlier, we are providing an updated report from The United List.

NOTE: Even though the last update was labelled “final”, this is a post-final “Friday Edition” of the United List for your work today.

Pick up The United List from the gathering place in your hotel or on the second floor, to the right of the registration desk on the second floor of the Convention Center. You can also access it on The United List site by the pdf here.

About Norm Fisher

Norm was raised in the UCC in Connecticut, and like many fell away from the church after high school. With this background he saw it primarily as a service organization. On the miracle of his first child he came back to the church. On moving to Texas a few years later he found a home in Lutheranism when he was invited to a confessional church a half-hour away by our new neighbors.

He is one of those people who found a like mind in computers while in Middle School and has been programming ever since. He's responsible for many websites, including the Book of Concord, LCMSsermons.com, and several other sites.

He has served the church in various positions, including financial secretary, sunday school teacher, elder, PTF board member, and choir member.

More of his work can be found at KNFA.net.

Comments

Post-Final Version of The United List — 34 Comments

  1. Sorry to go off topic, but if you are in contact with any delegates, please encourage them to stay through tomorrow. The floor was closed early today, as I understand, and 08-35 will be voted on tomorrow.

  2. Delegates, remember what Bredholdt said: “There is no issue as incendiary or potentially divisive as this… If ever there were what politicians call a “wedge issue” for the LCMS, this is it.”

    08-35 should be dead on arrival.

  3. @boogie #1

    Will any newly-established powers given to the office of the synodical president now give him the authority to change whatever he doesn’t like — if, say, 08-35 were to be passed?

  4. It is Saturday morning, about 10 a.m. in Houston, and I have watched several votes. It appears that about 400 delegates or almost 1/3, have left and are no longer voting. This is a disgrace, and extremely dangerous. Jesus First, to their credit, in past years has warned the delegates that they should stay till the convention is adjourned. There are still several very significant resolutions that could come to the floor, including the odious 08-35. These could be acted upon by only 2/3 of the registered delegates–a prescription for trouble and skulduggery. I don’t know how circuits can get their delegates to fulfill their franchise. It is a sad commentary on our synod to see that so many delegates, for whatever reason, choose to abandon this very important work.

    Johannes (mad as you know what, etc., etc.)

  5. The following should be engraved in stone and presented to President-elect Harrision upon his installation:

    “We support the published agenda for the 2010 Convention. We see no reason to change the agenda.

    “The proposed changes to structure and governance are important and need to be completed prior to elections. We believe that a proper structure and governance serves the church regardless of the human leaders in any elected office.”

    Rev. Jonathan Coyne, “Jesus First Convention News #2”

  6. @Helen #6
    Congregations having 500+/week are granted two add’l delegates. Note this is “weekly attendance,” not communicant members.

  7. Part of the problem and the real disgrace as I see it is scheduling the convention so that most pastoral delegates must be gone from their pulpits for TWO Sundays. Until recently, depending on where it was held relative to their home, many could get by without even missing one Sunday. I hope this is something President Harrision addresses, moving it back to a more central location relative to most LCMS congregations, and compressing the schedule which now includes a LOT of superfluous filler.

  8. @Kebas #9

    Rev. “Kebas”–Welcome back! It appears you’ve been “lurking” out there, but not posting.

    Your comments are well taken. However, the amount of business even without all the structure stuff these poor folks had to consider, is very large, and compressing the convention is a difficult thing. In 2004 and 2007, we had evening sessions which were difficult. If the convention begins on Sunday, and goes thru Thursday, that is still not enough time. The last day is significant, as we found out in 2007, when we got bamboozled out of our franchise re: special convention. I know Friday is a bad day, due to travel issues. But the sheer volume of work is daunting, and a compressed convention is a challenging thing to consider.

    Johannes

  9. The convention just voted not to bring floor committee 8 back up.

    This was in response to an offer by the FC chair, which I commend him for offering.

  10. I can’t find info anywhere. I know they left early, but what happened earlier this morning? Was 8-35 not brought up again? Defeated? A “pocket veto” by the convention, i.e., just not acted upon and let die?

  11. @Terrence #3
    A far as I can find, 8-35 did not make it to the floor. The only location for it was in the original Today’s Business and Sunday’s Today’s Business and it did not come to the floor this morning, unless I slept through it!!!

  12. Regarding 8-08A. I have heard so many delegates state that they still do not understand what has happened by its passage. I trust that our president -elect will know what to do and when to do it.

  13. I was actually at the convention most of the week, though not a voting delegate. As regards 8-08A, historically this is not an uncommon structure, boards for “home missions” and “foreign missions.” I suspect the LCMS actually had a structure akin to this at one time. So, especially since they were amended by the committee to be program boards and not just advisory, in itself this is not too radical of a change and doesn’t fundamentally transform the LCMS. It was the entire package of 40 structural resolutions that would have fundamentally altered the nature of our Synod, but thankfully the 18 that did pass are nothing too radical. Also, having a unified “team” of president, vice-presidents, board of directors, and all the other boards to implement this new structure will help avoid many potential pitfalls and was a wise move by the delegates.

  14. #19: “I have heard so many delegates state that they still do not understand what has happened by its passage.

    Presumably those were among the 568 delegates who voted AGAINST 8-08A.

  15. @Kebas #15

    8-35 did not make it to the floor. Even with only 2/3 of the original delegates present, I think it would have been defeated.

    I don’t know how many Constitutional changes were passed. I understand that David Buegler told the Ohio Delegation that he did not think that the constitutional resolutions would pass. So, now you can see why the first resolution to come to the floor, 8-18, was put out there, and why it was so important. It was a trial balloon, and the floor committee, the president, and the BRTF got the picture, when it didn’t even get 60%.

    Johannes

  16. @Carl Vehse #21
    Carl,

    I met a couple of them [maybe even more] from the JF side who were not sure what was voted but simply voted as they “had been told to vote.” There were probably many more who did not really understand. It was at times easy to get lost as you went from various issues of Today’s Business to a different one, to yet again another one. Several delegates approached the mike asking for some clarification and at times none was really given. I received the impression, sitting in delegate row, that even the floor committees were often lost as to how to explain what it was they were wanting us to change.

  17. @Johannes #22
    Johannes,

    I too am not sure how many constitutional resolutions were passed. I have in my head [still tired for all the work this week in Houston] that at most it was three. We need to remember that anything that changes the constitution must be ratified by 2/3 of the voting congregations and this did not pass the last time.

  18. @Carl Vehse #21
    “I received the impression, sitting in delegate row, that even the floor committees were often lost as to how to explain what it was they were wanting us to change.”
    This is not unusual. In 2004, and again in 2007, one particular floor committee was very befuddled–repeatedly. In 2007, synod counsel went to the mike, contradicted the floor committee, they huddled, and went back into conference. I think they’re still in there someplace. There was noticeable snickering in the hall that time.

    Rev. Roger D. Sterle :@Johannes #22 Johannes,
    I too am not sure how many constitutional resolutions were passed. I have in my head [still tired for all the work this week in Houston] that at most it was three. We need to remember that anything that changes the constitution must be ratified by 2/3 of the voting congregations and this did not pass the last time.

    I believe in 2004, two constitutional changes went to the congregations. One was kind of a no-brainer and it passed the congregations. The other gave the CCM authority over the Board of Directors, and it did not pass–I’m not sure it even got 50% of the congregations. If passed, this change would have meant that the CCM was the de facto Board of Directors!

    I don’t know if the Chair recognized the delegates–they did yoeman work–I met with our delegates a couple of times, and they had put in an extraordinary amount of time. A delegate from another district contacted me, and it was apparent that the work load was the same. They should have gotten a hand from all the floor committees and the COP. We should thank them–this convention will go down as one of the most significant in recent history.

    Johannes (delegate emeritus, thank goodness)

  19. So, it appears that 8-08, being a bylaw deal, is the “law of the land.” Correct?

  20. boogie :So, it appears that 8-08, being a bylaw deal, is the “law of the land.” Correct?

    Yes, but it’s up to the new adminstration to put it into practice. Lots of details to work out.
    Implementation will be very interesting.

    Johannes

  21. Got this email which is making the rounds. Even the date is ironic.

    Let the reader understand . . .

    “Once the Tories are in government, with their hands on the levers, we’ll never get them out of there.”

    Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown
    “Memoir Recounts Tumult in Downing Street”
    New York Times, Tuesday, July 13, 2010, p. A6

  22. Will anyone be able to say why United List apparently did not have a slate for LCEF?

  23. @helen #33

    It is my understanding that floor nominations were cut off before The United List could get their nominees added to the slate.

    You can see that they had three slated for floor nominations:

    http://theunitedlist.org/lcef-bod/

    SPK evidently asserted that LCEF nominees had to have background checks done on them, which presumedly added to the problem.

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