As We Predicted Pentecostal Woman Pastor Who Led Worship at Texas LCMS Youth Gathering was More than an Organist (Details on the Wittenberg Trail), by Pr. Rossow

As we predicted would happen, Kari Jobe was more than an organist at the Texas LCMS Youth Gathering last week. She gave commentary in between her songs as is typical of musicians leading “contemporary” worship. She is a pentecostal, woman pastor. This is on of the reasons we are concerned about this gathering. A Pentecostal woman pastor gave spiritual commentary on the music she led at an LCMS youth gathering. Our synod is slowly but steadily losing its Lutheran character and is becoming a “Bapticostal” denomination of American Evangelicalism.

Here is a quote from a young man at the gathering.

I can’t even determine who exactly gave the sermon for the service. Pete Couser, the bible study leader opened the service by giving the reading for the day and gave a short talk about it and about the entire weekend. Later, Pastor Pete Luedemann came on stage and gave yet another sermon of sorts. (Not to mention that he came on stage without any shoes on) These two people plus Kari Jobe and her commentary between every song made it difficult to determine who was giving the message and made me think why they couldn’t stick to one central message instead of multiple mini-messages.

You can read more of this interview and another at the Wittenberg Trail. They also have several videos posted on the site. I recently got on the trail and recommend that you do so as well. Eric Comstock and others have done a great job of creating an online community devoted to the discussion of all things Lutheran.

Here are some other past stories on BJS concerning the gathering:

The original post from Pastor Todd Wilken
Pastor Rossow’s commentary on the promotion of the event
An excellent critique of the LCMS Pacific Southwest Youth Gathering by layman Brian Thomas

About Pastor Tim Rossow

Rev. Dr. Timothy Rossow is the Director of Development for Lutherans in Africa. He served Bethany Lutheran Church in Naperville, IL as the Sr. Pastor for 22 years (1994-2016) and was Sr. Pastor of Emmanuel Lutheran in Dearborn, MI prior to that. He is the founder of Brothers of John the Steadfast but handed off the Sr. Editor position to Rev. Joshua Scheer in 2015. He currently resides in Ocean Shores WA with his wife Phyllis. He regularly teaches in Africa. He also paints watercolors, reads philosophy and golfs. He is currently represented in two art galleries in the Pacific Northwest. His M Div is from Concordia, St. Louis and he has an MA in philosophy from St. Louis University and a D Min from Concordia, Fort Wayne.

Comments

As We Predicted Pentecostal Woman Pastor Who Led Worship at Texas LCMS Youth Gathering was More than an Organist (Details on the Wittenberg Trail), by Pr. Rossow — 22 Comments

  1. But I’m sure this wouldn’t be considered unionism. After all, she was “only” the song leader. Since she wasn’t listed as being part of the worship, that means she wasn’t part of the worship, ergo no unionism, ipso facto hocus pocus semantics sophistry, hey presto!!

    But maybe I’m just cynical & unloving & unconcerned about the ‘gospel’ getting out. I’m sure there was a Lutheran pastor standing ready to tackle Ms. Jobe if she spouted out false doctrine. Trouble is, it seems like any ‘Lutherans’ in attendance were closer to her teaching than she would be to the Lutheran teaching.

    Does it seem as if gospel reductionism is running rampant throughout the LCMS? This idea that we all believe the same thing about Jesus or even if we don’t it doesn’t really matter so long as we get “the gospel” out. Trouble is, nobody bothers to define what that “gospel” is & nobody has the guts to rebuke false or misguided “gospels.”

    No, that would just be incessant internal purification & would be the same as the Nazi’s.

    Besides, who am I or who is anyone else to complain? Until we’ve personally met with every single person involved in Glory Bound & gone through the full dispute resolution system with all of them, we have no standing to criticize a PUBLIC event.

  2. See, here are the real telling comments about this event from the mouth of a 17 year yute.

    “The PULSE Worship was just like every other group session we had that weekend, only it had communion. The band played a few songs, some goofy games were played and the word invocation was on the screen. This confused me because we did not begin our service with a true invocation but with a very week prayer that basically just said “We love you Jesus”. It was quite the awkward start to the worship service for me at least.”

    The PULSE worship was JUST LIKE every other session, except we had communion.

    If this youth picked up on this, how many others did too & were confused by it also?

  3. Another telling comment from the young man at the gathering,

    “I can’t even determine who exactly gave the sermon for the service. Pete Couser, the bible study leader opened the service by giving the reading for the day and gave a short talk about it and about the entire weekend. Later, Pastor Pete Luedemann came on stage and gave yet another sermon of sorts. (Not to mention that he came on stage without any shoes on) These two people plus Kari Jobe and her commentary between every song made it difficult to determine who was giving the message and made me think why they couldn’t stick to one central message instead of multiple mini-messages.”

    He couldn’t even determine who gave the message for the service or even if they gave one central one?! Jobe’s commentary between every song helped make it hard to determine who was giving the message?

    Just what sort of message were they sending then? I doubt it was planned this way but wouldn’t this confusion lead many of the youth to think that perhaps Ms. Jobe was giving the message at worship & wouldn’t this confusion also lead them to believe that there was nothing wrong with this?

    Didn’t St. Paul say something about doing things decently & in good order & also I do not permit a woman to teach? But hey, he was just an old fashioned misogynist, homophobic crank who didn’t care about people’s salvation but about the incessant purification of doctrine.

  4. I find question 4 the most telling of those whole event! His paragraph response ends with:

    Few people were left thinking that they are truly sinful beings who could do no good without Christ.

    This was a LUTHERAN event? We are teaching our youth that they are not sinful beings? That they can clean the “bad stones” out of their hearts THEMSELVES?

    Also interesting on the wittenberg site is the letter from the texas district president refuting Kobe and the “closed” communion.

  5. And one last comment from the youth, who apparently realizes when he’s being patronized by adults & peddled something that’s only entertaining as opposed to the one thing needful.

    “The experience was great though whether or not I would call it a Lutheran gathering is almost questionable. I believe that people from all other Christian churches could have come to the event and not have been affected by what we are doing. If we are going to have a Lutheran convention shouldn’t we stick to our Lutheran beliefs? I see no reason to have speakers who are not Lutheran and who do not share the beliefs of the people who are attending the convention. It seems like they questioned the intelligence of the youth when some of the speakers were scheduled.

    Did I enjoy myself at Glory Bound? Of course. Could it have been a lot better? Of course.”

  6. Wouldn’t it be nice if the non Lutheran kids that went to this event with friends were able to finally hear the Truth. Law and Gospel rightly taught? Something they may rarely hear at their own churches? I think we, as Lutherans have the best message there is to get out there. What are we ashamed of? The Gospel? “I am not ashamed of the Gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Greek” Romans 1:16
    I’m sure when our youth go to a non Lutheran event, they never have brought in Lutheran speakers to teach their youth!

  7. What’s up with the pastor publicly judging his “across the street neighbors”, calling them people who are “flat-lined, going to pay for their own sins in a place called hell.” And why are the children laughing when he says it?

  8. Maybe the WELS is on to something when it comes to worship practice and not taking part with Christians that one is not in fellowship with?

    (We still need to work out the bugs on OHM though)

  9. Oh, I missed this “going to pay for their own sins in a place called hell.”

    This is a big time error, is it not? The damned suffer punishment, in spite of the fact that Jesus paid for their sins. They cannot pay. It is paid, they turned away from the gift.

  10. Calling the emergence of bologna like “Glory Bound” evidence of lax supervision might be “putting the best construction” on it, but I think Jim has a point when he attributes a more active heretical role to the DPs that foster this sort of thing. In the end, “Glory Bound” isn’t the fruit of neglegence, but heresy.

    And one additional random thought this morning: why is it “incessant internal purification” when Confessionals insist on the purity of the Gospel in Word and Sacrament (Matt 28:18-20, Acts 2:42) but not when Schwarmer Bishops pressure “past-oriented museum-keepers” to either break their ordination vows and abandon their calls or face removal/restricted status? I think the term “incessant internal purification” fits using a position of authority to eject folks with whom you disagree from your district or the synod better than it fits being devoted to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

    Advent Blessings +,
    -Matt Mills

  11. I think the term “incessant internal purification” fits using a position of authority to eject folks with whom you disagree from your district or the synod better than it fits being devoted to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. –Matt Mills

    The ‘ejections’ might more accurately be called “incessant internal pollution” if you consider the results. IMHO, of course.

  12. Helen,
    You are of course right. Removing teachers of pure doctrine from the church can’t really be considered “purification” can it?

  13. So, the DP of this district opened up the barn door and invited the wolves in.
    Comment by Jim Pierce — December 7, 2008 @ 2:19 pm

    Jim,
    That “barn door” has been swinging wide for at least four DP’s administrations…which is about as far back as I go in Texas.
    (Jerry Kieschnick was #2 of those four.)

  14. I am sorry but I think this site has some good qualities, but I also think one of its main purposes is to judge those who shouldn’t be judged. Kari Jobe is an awesome song writer and singer with a heart from the Lord. According to this site ministry should only be the Lutheran way. That is a lie. Jesus didn’t create Lutheran’s. He created Christians. I was a lutheran all my life, then my eyes were opened to have a personal relationship with the Lord that was beyond what the Lutheran religion had to offer. Now I have been through school and now planting a Church. My purpose is not to start a religion, it is to obey the Lord and the direction He has put in my heart. Kari Jobe is doing the same. She is gifted by the Lord and should be held to your standards. And so what if someone got up on stage with no shoes on. Jesus preached in sandels everyday. Didn’t wash his hands on the Sabbath, and healed many on the Sabbath. Don’t be like the Pharisee’s be like the loving Jesus who has saved you. God loves you and He is not happy with the judgmental comments on this site toward whoever they are being written about. God Bless!!

  15. Richard,

    Is Jesus mad at St. Paul too for calling the Galations fools because they were not preaching the true Gospel (Galatians 3:1)?

    What do you mean by “a heart for the Lord?” How do you know Kari Jobe has one and I don’t?

    Could you teach me from the Bible what it means to have “a relationship with the Lord?” I have never seen that phrase in the Bible.

    You are quite judgmental. I am not sure I like that.

    Pastor Rossow

  16. Richard,

    Thank you for posting. When you say that “you were a Lutheran your whole life” do you mean that you read and studied the main teachings in the Book of Concord (a true exposition of the Bible) and that now you reject those teachings?

    God united you to his Son in your baptism and forgave all your sins.

    Do you believe that God gives you his true, physical body and blood in the Holy Supper for the forgiveness of your sins?

    Trust Christ’s promises in his Word and Sacraments and don’t look to your heart.

  17. Before you go judge her..go to the chuch website

    http://gatewaypeople.com/index.php?action=abt_staff_ministry

    notice she is an associate pastor of worship…she is not a teaching minister/pastor!! Please …get your facts right before posting .

    Although i understand your concern about not looking bapticostal…we need to get ove this r. The Spirit of God is moving over the lands despite religions, denominations or titles. God looks at your heart. You can call yourself many things Catholic, Episcopal, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodst, Baptist, Pentecostal..but if you do not know who Jesus Christ is, and have a personal relationship with him..than your religion is all in vain!

    When you stand in front for the Judgement, it really does not matter that you were a Lutheran for years and you were part of bla bla synod..what matters is what you did for the Lord and that you knew him.

    I pray that your relationship with Christ will go beyond denomination..for Christ does not see that. Religion kills…a relationship with Jesus Christ is all that matters. Religion and tradition stifle…Jesus liberates and sets free the captive.

  18. As a Catholic I have to say I agree with the concerns of the pastors on this site. I like Kari Jobe’s music but if I may be so bold: this unbiblical candy floss theology of the ‘personal Lord and Saviour’ variety vs the theology of the traditional mainline Churches is, well, vacuous. I would differ with you Lutherans theologically but at least our discussion has the potential to be intellectually rigorous. Pax vobiscum.

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