Recent Comments

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The following are the latest 30 comments on Steadfast Lutherans.

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
Out of curiosity, how many sermons did the pastors posting here preach before ordination? As a seminarian myself and seeing the controversy here, I am curious about your experiences and what I should expect. Is it that many were prepared as practice, reviewed by the pastor overseeing your vicarage and never …
    Jim Grady at Jul 27 2015 10:25 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
@Latif Haki Gaba #22

I agree with you. If you were a vicar at one of great seminaries and you did not preach enough while you were a vicar you were a failure and even told that you might have to redo your vicarge. And not mention that as a “field work student” you had to preach a sermon or two as well. Hey no valid call …
    Walter Troeger at Jul 27 2015 08:54 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
@Pastor Prentice #8

Yes Alternate route students do this all the time. And then you got the districts setting lay minister bootcamps. Hey, even my home congregational pastor, when he was wanted time off, used to ask just about anyone to get up in the pulpit and administer the saraments. He didn’t care. This happened in …
    Walter Troeger at Jul 27 2015 08:49 pm

Great Stuff — The LCMS Calls a Post a Post
@Jason #24

Obfuscation – the watchword of     Carl Vehse at Jul 27 2015 09:48 am

Great Stuff — The LCMS Calls a Post a Post
@Jason #24

Is the DRP the result of LCMS conventions under the previous Synod …
    wineonthevines at Jul 27 2015 09:29 am

Great Stuff — The LCMS Calls a Post a Post
@wineonthevines #23

The Dispute Resolution Process. It really does not resolve disputes. Worse, it isn’t designed to seek …
    Jason at Jul 27 2015 09:05 am

Great Stuff — Jesus didn’t say homosexuality and same sex marriage are wrong?
The only words of Christ that we have come to us through His Holy Apostles. Saint Paul, who certainly condemns homophilia, claims to have received his doctrine directly from Christ. Are we supposed to believe that the Holy Apostles’ teachings run contrary to the will of Christ just because we don’t read a clear condemnation in red …
    Buddy Wetuski at Jul 27 2015 08:53 am

Great Stuff — The LCMS Calls a Post a Post
I have to wonder why it took so long to remove Becker? I think it took a little over 3 years for Rome to excommunicate …
    wineonthevines at Jul 27 2015 08:52 am

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
Also, we know you’re fond of sharing Old Missouri quotes & anecdotes. But I have specifically asked if you have any old Missouri quotes which give justification or arguments for the practice of lay preaching, arguments which are demonstrably in accord with the Confessions of our …
    Latif Haki Gaba at Jul 27 2015 01:28 am

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
Your Rolf Preus quote only shows that Rolf Preus has reconciled the practice in his own mind. But I didn’t ask what a Preus thinks. I asked you the question, what call does the seminarian have to preach publicly in the church? Do you have any thoughts on this yourself?

I love Rolf Preus, but one of the problems viewing the vicarage as part of the extended call process is that the Confessions don’t say that no one should preach unless he is …
    Latif Haki Gaba at Jul 27 2015 01:16 am

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
In his Zion on the Mississippi (CPH, 1953, pp. 512-3), Walter O. Forster describes a “curious course of action” regarding ordination by Ottomar Fürbringer, Walther’s brother-in-law and several years later to become one of the founders of the Missouri Synod: “Fürbringer adopted a curious course of action in accepting a call to Elkhorn Prairie (Venedy), Illinois, without ordination, although he considered ordination so highly important that he …
    Carl Vehse at Jul 26 2015 11:48 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
Rev. Rolf Preus stated in an April 1, 2008, Luther Quest post: “In our day, I believe that permitting a vicar to preach a sermon approved by the pastor as the vicar is learning to become a pastor is not a violation of the spirit of AC XIV, inasmuch as the rite of rite vocatus cannot be understood properly apart from the …
    Carl Vehse at Jul 26 2015 11:43 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
To be sure, what I concede is not that ordination is an adiaphoron. I am capable, however, of framing the question at hand without reference to the word ‘ordination’. For in the current discussion, your view of ordination is a side show to the question at hand.

What call does the seminarian have to preach publicly in the …
    Latif Haki Gaba at Jul 26 2015 10:16 pm

Great Stuff — Was John Tietjen Right?
The last paragraph above claims that the reason the saying of ordination vows does not necessarily result in unity of practice “is because either some cross their fingers when they take the vows, or they approach the subscription question differently.”

In some cases, might it be because their beliefs change after they have begun their ministry? Isn’t that what happened with Luther?

Again from the article: “I don’t see that simply …
    Carl H at Jul 26 2015 10:09 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
Your 98 grad student, no matter how long his current title is, was merely describing the LCMS concept of vicar that is currently in vogue. That doesn’t mean the concept squares with what the same church ostensibly confesses in the AC.

I asked you to name nonordained pastors. At what point was Chemnitz both a pastor and not ordained? Besides, what is your point about Chemnitz lecturing for several months? So did Melanchthon. Being a lay …
    Latif Haki Gaba at Jul 26 2015 10:03 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
“Name for me some nonordained pastors”

According to a March 29, 2008, Luther Quest post by the Rev. Dr. Carl Beckwith: Martin Chemnitz preached a sermon before he was ordained. In 1554, Chemnitz was invited by Melanchthon to teach at the University of Wittenberg. From June to October, he lectured on Melanchthon’s Loci …
    Carl Vehse at Jul 26 2015 09:16 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
“I just got through conceding, for the sake of conversation, that I can leave the word ‘ordination’ out of the question”

Referring to the necessity of the call as a “side show” is not what I would equate with “conceding.” In any case, the defense of Lutheran doctrine is justification in itself.

As for the question of a vicar preaching or officiating the Lord’s Supper), this was addressed seventeen years ago in a     Carl Vehse at Jul 26 2015 09:09 pm

Concordia University Plan for the Future? A consolidated Concordia?
@Pastor Dave Likeness #8

> We should learn from Hillsdale College …

True believers there. MO synod barely elected Harrison in 2010. …
    mbw at Jul 26 2015 07:45 pm

Concordia University Plan for the Future? A consolidated Concordia?
@Felicia #14

> Concordia Ann Arbor has already divested itself of the Perkins loan money from the government.

In our case the “Perkins” (subsidized) loan is a smaller component of the payment package.

Why would UNSUBSIDIZED loans be hard to replace (from non-government sources)?

Whatever it …
    mbw at Jul 26 2015 07:42 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
Carl,
What is the point of your quotations?

I just got through conceding, for the sake of conversation, that I can leave the word ‘ordination’ out of the question, since that will obviously make some of you more comfortable. That is, in what possible way does a seminarian have a call to preach publicly in the church, either as part of Field Ed., or pulpit supply, or vicarage? Do any of your good Missourian quotes give a justification for …
    Latif Haki Gaba at Jul 26 2015 04:51 pm

Concordia University Plan for the Future? A consolidated Concordia?
“A lot of trouble comes from Texas, honestly.”

And it’s past time, that such trouble, if still unrepentant, should be suspended and booted out of membership in the Missouri …
    Carl Vehse at Jul 26 2015 04:34 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
From Christian Dogmatics: A Handbook of Doctrinal Theology for Pastors, Teachers, and Laymen (J.T. Mueller, St. Louis:CPH, 1934): “The ordination of called ministers is not a divine institution, or ordinance, but a church rite; for while it is mentioned, Acts 14, 33, it is not a command in Scripture. We therefore rightly classify ordination among the adiaphora and affirm that not the ordination but the call makes a person a minister.” [p. …
    Carl Vehse at Jul 26 2015 04:24 pm

Hymnal in every home
Someone gave me a “Sunday School Hymnal” by CPH today. There is no year of publication. It is put out by CPH. It is “By Authority of The English Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Missouri and Other States” Does anyone know what year it was published or have any other info on …
    Rev. Dean Kavouras at Jul 26 2015 03:39 pm

Concordia University Plan for the Future? A consolidated Concordia?
I have not read all of this but I’m surprised to see a confessional pastor suggest throwing out Concordia Nebraska for Texas. A lot of trouble comes from Texas, …
    mbw at Jul 26 2015 03:17 pm

A District President Responds: Doctrinal Supervision Revisited
@Carl Vehse #17

Your are most correct, there are a significant number of clueless pastors as well. I know several.

One thing that some may not recognize is the battle lines are being more and more drawn between Lutheran orthodoxy and new Evangelical, which has permeated our ranks. You might just find many of …
    Gene White at Jul 26 2015 02:47 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
Rich,
Are you right that call & ordination are distinct; you are confused when you claim that they should be separate. You say ordination is merely “useful”. Tell me, what exactly is that usefulness. Name for me some nonordained pastors.

Besides all that, despite the side show that there are certain types of Missourians who prefer we speak of the necessity of the call, and not bring up ordination, in what way does a seminarian, even in …
    Latif Haki Gaba at Jul 26 2015 02:27 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
Lutherans confess the doctrine that a pastor has the responsibility and the authority to publicly preach the Gospel and administer the sacraments, and that such a responsibility and authority is transferred (übertragen) by God through the call of a congregation, not from ordination or installation. If the man has no call, he is not a pastor, but only a layman.

This was amply discussed by Walter Forster in his Zion on the Mississippi …
    Carl Vehse at Jul 26 2015 01:59 pm

Nothing to Give Except Jesus: A Vicarage Retrospective
As usual, some have confused our synod ‘ s view of a proper call with ordination. The two are separate and distinct. One is required of a pastor and the other is a useful …
    Rich Balvanz at Jul 26 2015 01:25 pm

Great Stuff — Mark’s thoughts: They worshipped when?!?
Do we “get credit”?

We get to …
    helen at Jul 26 2015 08:53 am

Great Stuff — Jesus didn’t say homosexuality and same sex marriage are wrong?
Lutheran pastors who do volunteer work as counselors with city or state organizations may soon expect something similar to this: The state of Kentucky has begun imposing a religious test on volunteer pastor counselors in its youth division, insisting that they refrain from calling homosexuality “sinful” and dismissing those who cannot bend their religious faith to accommodate the state requirements.

The policy was uncovered by Liberty …
    Carl Vehse at Jul 26 2015 08:18 am