Proud Members of the Religious Left

March 27th, 2014 Post by

Addressing the Seminex crowd

We all saw the coverage of the 40th anniversary of the Seminex debacle last month, including a couple of related articles on BJS here, here, and here. What you probably didn’t see was the view from the “other side.” To see what forty years of liberal theology and the Historical-Critical Method get you, here’s a few quotes from those sympathetic to the walkout.

From a University Lutheran Chapel of Berkely post by Rev. Jeff Johnson titled “Seminex turns 40!”:

On February 20, 1974 a group of approximately 500 seminary students, and 45 faculty, and their families walked out of Concordia Seminary in St. Louis (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) because of their commitment to the Gospel. Over the past 40 years, their “exile” has transformed Lutheran communities throughout the United States. We are incredibly grateful for their courage.

They helped form Christ Seminary-Seminex and eventually the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches and the ELCA. The Chapel was a member of the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches before we became a part of the ELCA.

As Pastor Mike Wilker, Senior Pastor at the Lutheran Church of the Reformation in Washington DC writes: “Those students, professors, spouses, and congregation leaders changed the church, our communities, and our nation in immensely positive ways. We are indebted to their servant leadership. Thanks be to God for their creativity, compassion, and courage then and throughout their ministries!”

From the Dean of Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary, Rev. Karen L. Bloomquist, in a post titled “Above the Fog”:

…We were impressed that for the sake of the freedom of the Gospel, seminary folks would make such a bold move. The courage and risks this entailed were considerable, including what ministry prospects they would face after seminary.

…Looking now at the overall affect on the ELCA, it is remarkable how many past and present ELCA bishops have been part of or following from the movement that began forty years ago. The ever-changing numbers are far out of proportion to the size of Seminex and the AELC. It also is interesting to note how many of the women who now are ordained pastors in the ELCA have had some roots in the LC-MS, but through the movement that began forty years ago, the call to ordained ministry began to open up for them. Thanks be to God for all that followed from this bold “enter without knocking!”

From a blog post of Rev. Susan M. Strouse, “Proud Member of the Religious Left,” titled “The Pain & Power of Being Exiled”:

Exile can take many forms. None of them is pleasant. However, out of exile can come both individual and group empowerment, as well as a powerful witness.

Consider the story of Concordia Seminary in Exile (Seminex). On February 19, 1974, a large majority of the student body at Concordia Seminary and most of the faculty marched off campus into an unknown future. They did so in response to a crackdown on the president and faculty from the denomination (Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod) over the teaching of historical-critical method of biblical interpretation. This past week was the 40th anniversary of the walkout and a celebration of the people who risked academic, financial, family relationships in response to injustice. It was also a celebration of their contribution to the church of today. There is a strand of feisty faithfulness that came out of that experience of exile.

And it wasn’t limited to the seminary either. As I listened to the stories of these heroes in the faith, I was reminded of one of my own heroes – also a product of the Missouri Lutheran schism. As the ripples from the seminary reached across the country, Pastor Robert Wendelin began to feel the effects in his own congregation in Buffalo, NY. Eventually, the congregation split, with Pastor W. and about a hundred members walking out into their own exile. Eventually, after about three years of wilderness wandering, they joined together with another church, North Park Lutheran, which had also decided to leave the Missouri fold. Ultimately the congregations that left became part of the newly forming Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

From a sermon of Rev. Matt Day titled “On the Occasion of the 25th Anniversary of the ELCA”:

Many of you might not know this but my dad played a part in the ELCA’s formation. Well, it was more like his seminary, but he did carry the banner during their walk out! My dad was a part of the Concordia Seminary in Exile, also known as Seminex. His classmates and professors decided to walk out and teach on their own because they felt the church was wrong in their decision to fire nearly all of the faculty over a matter of social-historical interpretation of the Bible – a teaching that is standard and widely accepted today.

He and his classmates left the safety of the status quo to go and learn and stand up for their professors who were wronged by the church.

…And the ELCA has had a rough life. Lutheran Churches have had a hard time evangelizing. There have been a number of difficult votes taken which caused people to leave and start other church bodies. Most Lutheran churches have been struggling since 1988. It has not been easy being a Lutheran.

…And love can change this world. Lutherans might be having a hard time growing, but we are really good at serving on the road with love. Lutherans have the largest social network in our country. We are the first on the scene of a natural disaster and we are the last ones to leave. When you give to Lutheran Disaster response, 100% of your donation goes to people in need – not to paying for overhead. No other disaster organization can say that.

We have the best nursing homes. We have an amazing adoption network. We have great seminaries. We do a great deal of work for our world and we are living out the command of Jesus today.

We are changing the world – you are changing the world because you are a part of something bigger. It is why I chose to serve a church like the ELCA – I want to be a part of something bigger than who I am. It is why we continue to share in the ministry of the ELCA – ministry just doesn’t happen in the community, but it happens all over the world and we are able to share in this ministry just by being member of St. Paul’s and Mt. Joy.

…So today, we celebrate unity. We celebrate interconnectedness. We celebrate the leaders like my dad, bishops, presidents, pastors, and members who put their careers on the line to stand up and change the world. Today we give thanks to God for the gift of the church and we ask God to continue to bless the church, to pour out the Holy Spirit on the church, and lead us into another 25 years of faithful partnership.

“Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.”
2 Timothy 2:23-26 ESV


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  1. Gary
    March 27th, 2014 at 09:44 | #1

    COMMENT REMOVED FOR TROLLING.

  2. Rev. McCall
    March 27th, 2014 at 09:52 | #2

    Seriously Gary? Please don’t hijack and try to ruin another article with your silliness.

  3. Rev. Stephen Schumacher
    March 27th, 2014 at 10:02 | #3

    You quote Matt Day, “We are changing the world.” It is just the opposite and always has been the opposite. It was the world changing the biblical and theological outlook of the faculty and students of Seminex. The historical-critical method came about as a result of the Enlightenment. It was the world changing the theologians. And it is the world that has changed the predecessor bodies of the ELCA and the current ELCA. Ordination of women, pro-abortion, pro-homosexuality–these changes occurred in the world and changed the ELCA and its predecessor bodies. Liberal “Christianity” has always been changed by the world. The only way it which it changes the world is that liberal “Christianity” helps to change the theology and piety of members within the church away from traditional Christian theology and piety.

  4. helen
    March 27th, 2014 at 10:04 | #4

    @Rev. McCall #2
    Seriously Gary? Please don’t hijack and try to ruin another article with your silliness.

    We know the problem. Apparently we haven’t learned that ignoring the troll is the best cure.

    About the article:
    “When you give to Lutheran Disaster response, 100% of your donation goes to people in need – not to paying for overhead. No other disaster organization can say that.”

    Apparently this author is not well informed.
    Salvation Army devotes 100% of disaster relief donations to disaster relief (and is usually on site of a disaster first, too).

    Augustana Ministerium devotes 100% of contributions to helping men that synod would prefer to forget about. Even. now. [See Pr. Fiene's Lutheran Satire on "the man on fire" and the convention's "solution".]

    But you wouldn’t expect seminexers to admit a mistake, would you? Especially when Synod pretends they are all “over there” and ignores the “mining of tunnels” under our own feet by the ones “over here”?

  5. JJFlanagan
    March 27th, 2014 at 11:14 | #5

    @Rev. Stephen Schumacher #3
    Based on the positions and actions of ELCA, it is accurate to simply say the truth directly and unequivocally……it is an apostate body teaching heresy, and it is arrogant, worldly, and carnal. ELCA is beyond redemption, a church that fits the description of those despised in the Book of Revelation, and no faithful child of God should enter the doors of this congregation.

  6. March 27th, 2014 at 11:23 | #6

    @Gary #1

    What is relevant to the OP regards the fact that Piepkorn was apparently sympathetic to the Seminex movement and was cited for teaching false doctrine. Piepkorn’s view on inerrancy is most certainly not the teaching of the LCMS on the subject. (Debating inerrancy itself should not occur in this thread.)

    “During the mid-seventies amidst the storm of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod controversy, Piepkorn was among those of the faculty majority at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, cited as teaching false doctrine by the 1973 New Orleans Convention resolution 3-09. Piepkorn was a signatory of the Seminary majority’s protest against this resolution and resolution 3-01, which declared that all of the synod’s theological and biblical interpretation and teachings must be interpreted in accord with a presumed synodical tradition as articulated in the document entitled, “A Statement of Scriptural and Confessional Principles,” by Dr. Jacob A. 0. Preus, President of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.” (Plekon and Wiecher, The Church: Selected Writings of Arthur Carl Piepkorn, New York: ALPB Books, 1993, 300.) (online source)

  7. Gary
    March 27th, 2014 at 11:59 | #7

    Moderator:

    Trolling???

    Maybe I am just trying to wake the LCMS up to its venture into evangelicalism. 75% of the LCMS has abandoned the liturgy, and now we have accepted the evangelical definition of Biblical Inerrancy. That is what should be addressed, not my appeals to orthodox reason.

    You are behaving like typical fundamentalists. Terrified of tolerating dissent.

    Go ahead. Squash this comment also.

  8. March 27th, 2014 at 12:06 | #8

    @Gary #7
    You keep using those words (Lutheran, fundamentalists, orthodox) but I don’t think they mean what you think they mean.

    In general we tolerate all sorts of discussion, but not discussion that leads away from the post or what was just beat to death (did you ever read the resources that others were asking you to read?) in another post.

    If more than one of the moderators tends to think you are trolling, you most likely are. And I think that your non-published and published comments in regards to our moderation are disrespectful to say the least.

    I hope you can change your commenting patterns or you will be banned from the site.

  9. Rev. McCall
    March 27th, 2014 at 13:06 | #9

    Dr. Voelz used to say that an entire course ought to be taught to each first year class at the seminary just on the events leading up to, during, and after the walk-out. I believe he is right and hope St. Louis and Ft. Wayne take up the idea and run with it. It would be dangerous to forget what took place and the theology behind it all.

  10. Joe Krohn
    March 27th, 2014 at 14:49 | #10

    “…So today, we celebrate unity. We celebrate interconnectedness. We celebrate the leaders like my dad, bishops, presidents, pastors, and members who put their careers on the line to stand up and change the world.”

    “World” must be a typo. Surely they meant church.

    Or; Are they misguided in that the church’s mission is not to change the world, since our kingdom is not of this world????

  11. T-rav
    March 27th, 2014 at 14:56 | #11

    @Joe Krohn #10

    Funny you should mention this. I distinctly remember in the movie “Son of God”, Jesus telling Peter, “We’re going to change the world.”

    I’m still searching the Scriptures to find this line. I haven’t found it in the Gospels, but it might be in the book of Eisegesis.

  12. Jais H. Tinglund
    March 27th, 2014 at 15:16 | #12

    @T-rav #11
    I remember that quote about changing the world from a promotion for the movie; it is enough to convince me that the movie will be just another misrepresentation, like “Jesus Christ Superstar” and “The Last Temptation of Christ”, and watching it is not going to do me or anybody else any good.

  13. T-rav
    March 27th, 2014 at 15:25 | #13

    @Jais H. Tinglund #12

    Pretty much yes. It centers on Jesus being our example to follow to “get our second chance”. Mary Magdalene even told one of the disciples after Jesus called Matthew, “Jesus gave him another chance; we should too.” Not even close to Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins.

  14. Rev. David Mueller
    March 27th, 2014 at 15:30 | #14

    @Joe Krohn #10
    Nah. Not “World”, nor “church”. *Word*. (They mistakenly added in a variant reading–with one extra letter, that changes the whole meaning of the “text”.) Should read “change the Word!”

  15. Jais H. Tinglund
    March 27th, 2014 at 15:49 | #15

    @Rev. David Mueller #14
    Brilliant observation.
    But would not this variant, like each and every other variant in existence, necessarily not only change the meaning of the specific text, but also make everything they ever said, and will ever say, untrustworthy and unreliable?

    Well, come to think of it – I guess it does …

  16. Thomas
    March 27th, 2014 at 16:23 | #16

    I wrote a paper about Seminex in grad school. One thing that consistently struck me was the arrogance of the liberal faction. They simply set themselves above the Word of God and decided they would become its ultimate arbiters. Not a wise course of action, obviously. Plus, the symbolic walk-out was pathetic. It would have been a lot more impressive had they not returned to the Sem for lunch.

  17. Jay M.
    March 27th, 2014 at 16:29 | #17

    Interesting. In the comments above from the Seminex/ELCA folks we hear a lot of talk about the “Gospel” changing the world from a social justice perspective. But not one of them ever mentions the preaching of Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins. They give lip service to “freedom” but they have no concept of what true freedom really is. How sad for them.

  18. March 27th, 2014 at 16:41 | #18

    >>Dr. Voelz used to say that an entire course ought to be taught to each first year class at the seminary just on the events leading up to, during, and after the walk-out.

    Such a course used to be taught at Concordia, St. Louis: Church Polity, with Dr. John Klotz. While we also covered broader aspects of church polity, most of the course indeed was focused on events leading up to, during, and after the Walkout. Dr. Klotz saw to it that this required course was added to the curriculum because he felt it was vital that the next generation of LCMS pastors (I was 14 in 1974) understand the issues. These events were also extensively covered in History of the LCMS with Prof. William Schmelder. He too used his influence as registrar to make this a required course because, as he explained at the beginning of the class, “the Synod which does not learn from its history is doomed to repeat it.” However, I believe the former course was dropped after Dr. Klotz’s retirement, in a reorganization of the curriculum. Hopefully the material is now incorporated into another course. These men had a real insight into and passion for communicating these events because they lived through them, as new faculty immediately following the Walkout, and Dr. Klotz as previously a member of the Senior College faculty, and Prof. Schmelder as former Pres. John Behnken’s son-in-law and de facto aide in his latter years.

  19. jb
    March 27th, 2014 at 17:42 | #19

    Fr. Kurt Marquart succinctly summed up the essentials of Seminex in his classic “Anatomy of an Explosion.”

  20. John Werner
    March 27th, 2014 at 19:16 | #20

    @Rev. Kevin Vogts #18

    >>Dr. Voelz used to say that an entire course ought to be taught to each first year class at the seminary just on the events leading up to, during, and after the walk-out.

    There is a class covering this subject currently taught at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis by Profs. Herrmann and Bode. You can also watch many of the lectures at iTunesU for free.

    https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/controversy-in-lcms-1960s/id426817181?mt=10

    The class (along with many others) is listed under the “Courses” tab of the Seminary’s iTunesU main page.

    “Controversy in the LCMS – 1960’s-1970’s”

    Christ’s Peace.

  21. March 28th, 2014 at 08:10 | #21

    @Gary #7
    Perhaps you would be better suited leaving Lutheranism and going into a more liberal, less Bible-believing denomination, like the PCUSA, the ELCA, or the Episcopalians, who would be far more sympathetic to your thoughts on Biblical errancy.

  22. Richard Lewer
    March 28th, 2014 at 09:41 | #22

    I graduated from Springfield in 1974. A delegation came from St. Louis to “enlighten” us about the situation. In the discussion, they got pinned down on their belief that “It doesn’t matter if it really happened, if you believe that it happened.” End of that discussion.

  23. Rev. McCall
    March 28th, 2014 at 10:38 | #23

    @John Werner #20
    Thanks for that update. At my time at seminary there was no such course. Glad to see it offered!

  24. wineonthevines
    March 28th, 2014 at 13:10 | #24

    Let’s face it, we are, it seems, in the last of the Last Days and the false church is GROWING!
    And THAT is NOT a good thing. Stay thirsty, my friends, for the truth that IS God’s Word!!!

  25. Stephan Babinec
    March 28th, 2014 at 13:21 | #25

    It is my hope that every WELS member would learn one of the lessons from this era, and that is the central church body needs to fund a worker trainer system. The WELS is facing another budget crunch, it is my hope that if it continues into next summer when we meet in convention, that the importance of the current worker training system is not lost on the delegates.

  26. Big Boy
    March 28th, 2014 at 16:42 | #26

    I am so thankful for The Lord’s mercy for these people, they still have time to repent of their false teachings and pride over their sin. I did laugh when I saw rev next to a woman’s name. I am so thankful I had pastors who taught me the truth. May He please quell my pride and show me that I did not come to the truth on my own, rather The Holy Spirit lead me there through His free gift of faith.

  27. helen
    March 28th, 2014 at 20:05 | #27

    @Thomas #16
    It would have been a lot more impressive had they not returned to the Sem for lunch.

    What? Buy lunch!? [Real dedication would have dictated a fast.] ;)

  28. March 29th, 2014 at 09:41 | #28

    MODERATOR – I have deleted this comment as the person it was directed to can no longer comment on this post.

  29. jb
    March 29th, 2014 at 20:29 | #29

    MODERATOR – I have deleted this comment as the person it was directed to can no longer comment on this post.

  30. March 29th, 2014 at 21:52 | #30

    Miguel and jb – Gary is not going to be able to respond and I am going to zero out your comments since he cannot.

  31. jb
    March 30th, 2014 at 02:55 | #31

    Fr. Scheer –

    Fair enough. Pax

  32. Joe Strieter
    March 30th, 2014 at 07:08 | #32

    Moderator–if you’re going to remove a comment, as in #1 “Removed for trolling” I believe you ought to remove the commentor’s name as well. It paints the person as a troll, which is neither helpful nor constructive.

    Thanks

  33. Joe Strieter
    March 30th, 2014 at 07:12 | #33

    @T-rav #11

    The phrase “change the world” is in the book of “II Rick Warren” Chapter 3:11, and “The Gospel According to Joel Osteen” Chapter 19:356. You could look it up.

  34. Joe Strieter
    March 30th, 2014 at 11:24 | #34

    Big Boy :
    I am so thankful for The Lord’s mercy for these people, they still have time to repent of their false teachings and pride over their sin. I did laugh when I saw rev next to a woman’s name. I am so thankful I had pastors who taught me the truth. May He please quell my pride and show me that I did not come to the truth on my own, rather The Holy Spirit lead me there through His free gift of faith.

    Well said. My sentiments exactly.

  35. March 30th, 2014 at 13:25 | #35

    1 Corinthians 5: 6: “Your boasting is not good.” Or as translated by the divines under King James: “Your glorying is not good.” What were the Corinthians glorying in? Their ‘superior’ theology which accepted among many sins, incest. They developed a theology to go with the acceptance of incest: “All things are lawful” and “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”. I would hazard a historical guess they repeated those slogans to reassure themselves of the rightness of their sin. The Apostle in the verse cited is so plain: Your glorying is not good.” I hope the people quoted in the article will one day have a pastor be as forthright to say to them: “Your glorying is not good.”

  36. T-rav
    March 30th, 2014 at 18:13 | #36

    @Joe Strieter #33

    Oh, I see. “I Rick Warren” must be about “deeds not creeds” and II Rick Warren must concern how this changes the world.

    And in the “Gospel According to Joel Osteen” is this before or after the little “Bible Creed” which amazingly has more to do with me, me, me than the Bible?

    Interestingly enough, if I have heard correctly these men were advisors for both “The Bible” and “Son of God.”

  37. helen
    March 30th, 2014 at 20:36 | #37

    @Big Boy #26
    ” I did laugh when I saw rev next to a woman’s name.”

    It makes me sad, because 20 years ago, on the first Lutheran list I became acquainted with, most of those women were daughters of LCMS pastors. Possibly rebels, or possibly with fathers who were sympathetic to them, to seminex and the whole undermining of traditional Lutheran doctrine going on in LCMS to this day.

  38. Joanne
    March 30th, 2014 at 22:07 | #38

    I like to skim Pastor Barnhardt’s list, form time to time, of the congregations that have voted to leave the ELCA. I can’t help but wonder if some of the AELC congregations, lost all those years ago to the ELCA, are quietly showing up on that list. There must be some among us that would recognize them.

  39. Joe Strieter
    March 31st, 2014 at 10:35 | #39

    @T-rav #36
    “Interestingly enough, if I have heard correctly these men were advisors for both “The Bible” and “Son of God.””

    Yes, and that defender of the faith (but not the Holy Trinity), T.D. Jakes. Not a real theologian among them. I kind of wondered where Bishop Spong was in that mix.

    When Pharaoh asked Moses, “Why are you here?” (Or some such question) and Moses replied “I have a purpose,” that was enough for me.

    Having read the “Blue Book,” and being privileged to have the key to the professors whom the Blue Book identified only as “A” “B” “C” etc., I continue to be astounded at their coziness with patently false doctrine

  40. wineonthevines
    March 31st, 2014 at 11:29 | #40

    Paul commands that godless teachers should be avoided and execrated as cursed, Gal.1:8; Titus 3:10. And he says, 2 Cor. 6:14: Be ye not unequally yoked with unbelivers; for what communion hath light with darkness? – From “The Power and Primacy of the pope,” para. 41

  41. Martin R. Noland
    March 31st, 2014 at 12:11 | #41

    Dear BJS Bloggers,

    Here is another angle on the 1970s controversy in the LCMS, which was also played out in different ways in our other denominations.

    For Protestants, an attack on Scripture by upper-echelon clergy (e.g., bishops, national and regional presidents, and “executives”) and/or by professor-theologians, disenfranchises both the parish clergy and the laymen.

    Why is this the case? The Scriptures, when in the language of the people, puts everyone more or less on an even playing field. The parish pastor can’t pass off his own pet hobby-horse-ideas as the Word of God, because his congregation can say, “Show that to us from the Scriptures!” If he can’t prove it from canonical Scriptures, its just his opinion. This is the point made by C.F.W. Walther in his Church and Ministry, Ministry Thesis X (see Matthew Harrison ed. [St Louis: CPH, 2012], 330-350).

    The same goes for a member of the upper-echelon clergy or theological-professoriate trying to pass off his own sophisticated or trendy ideas as God’s Word–in that case, both the parish clergy and laymen can say, “Show that to us from the Scriptures!” If he can’t prove it from canonical Scriptures, it is just his opinion. And your opinion is as good as mine.

    I would add that the creeds and confessions help immensely in the “layman judges his pastor” process. If the Lutheran pastor can point to support from the Lutheran Confessions, then the layman should accept that, since we have mutually agreed to use these writings as arbiters in doctrinal controversies (e.g., LCMS Const. II).

    When the canonical Scriptures lose their plenary authority, i.e., that all of Scripture is God’s Word, then those who are deemed to be the expert judges of Scripture (i.e., judging which verses in Scripture are God’s Word and which are not) become actual autocrats in the church, even though their manner may not be autocratic. This is why “higher criticism” is so damaging to Protestant churches—it changes the lines of authority from bottom-up to top-down.

    This is also why rationalistic higher criticism first took hold in the Anglican churches, in the Latitudinarian and Deist movements, because they were already top-down with their episcopal polity. Rationalistic higher criticism does little damage to the pope’s church, because their principle of authority is not Scripture.

    In summary, those who reject plenary authority of the Scriptures are autocrats; those who accept it are egalitarians. Lay people need to realize that the only churches where they are truly respected as “brothers and sisters in Christ” are the Protestant churches that hold to the plenary authority of Scripture. I can’t figure out why any believing-layman would support any other type of church or any other type of pastor.

    Yours in Christ, Martin R. Noland

  42. Joyful Noise
    April 3rd, 2014 at 11:34 | #42

    Gary :
    Moderator:
    Trolling???
    Maybe I am just trying to wake the LCMS up to its venture into evangelicalism. 75% of the LCMS has abandoned the liturgy, and now we have accepted the evangelical definition of Biblical Inerrancy. That is what should be addressed, not my appeals to orthodox reason.
    You are behaving like typical fundamentalists. Terrified of tolerating dissent.
    Go ahead. Squash this comment also.

    75% have abandoned the liturgy? I don’t think so. Unfortunately there are still a few older pastors out there who did not walk out but probably should have as they were supportive of the movement. They have been causing dissension in the church ever since. Fortunately most of them are ready for retirement and we will reclaim our synod once again.

  43. helen
    April 10th, 2014 at 14:10 | #43

    @Joyful Noise #42
    Fortunately most of them are ready for retirement and we will reclaim our synod once again.

    You don’t think they carefully taught people to follow them and succeed them!?
    Nobody “bought the lie” in the congregations they pastored?
    They raised no sons to succeed them?
    [CSL should be a model of orthodoxy now. Is it!?]

    I’ve heard this hope that “it would all die out” for about 15 years.
    Sincerely wish it were as easy as that!

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