Even while steeples are falling UPDATED

August 8th, 2012 Post by

The old ULC front entrance

ULC’s demolition was completed today.  Peter Wagner, a college student at the U of MN and also a member of ULC created the following video.

 

Here is an updated version of it:

On top of this video, there are a number of photos from the demolition.  I will say thank you to Doran for allowing the folks at ULC to salvage the stained glass and altar from the old building.  I will say thank you to the convention delegates who voted to fund the beginning of the new ULC with $2 million from the sale.  That amount will not get ULC anything similar, but it has helped.  Really, our readers need to continue to support ULC and consider making a mission festival offering for the ULC cause.  Another $2 million will most likely be needed to situate the congregation with a similar footprint to serve the students of the University of Minnesota.  Stay tuned for other fundraising options to support ULC.

This whole episode over the past year has been shameful.  Throughout it all we have seen the worst of what happens in a church body which tolerates diversity in belief.  The side-taking and politics are only reflective of different beliefs waging war over resources, and the witness to the Gospel is lost among the fight.  This past year should cause great concern about the future of any Koinonia efforts and how they will all turn out for the LCMS.  How do we reconcile the parties even around something as simple as the Third Article of the Creed, which has long been thrown aside by those who would rather improve upon God’s way of making disciples with the latest and greatest methods and schemes?  God only knows.  Thank God that unity is His business.  Compromise will not work – only God-given repentance and return to the pure teachings of Scripture.

Please continue to pray for the elected leaders in our Synod as they deal with this.  Pray for the new leadership of the MN South District as they have inherited a district that has been torn apart by what created the rubble pictured above.  Pray for the congregation of ULC and Pastor Kind, who have suffered dearly through this and yet behaved admirably.  Support campus ministries and faithful campus ministry models, which focus upon the Word of God, the pure Gospel and the rightly administered Sacraments for their life and outreach to the students which God brings to them.

 

 


Categories: Pastor Joshua Scheer Tags: , ,




Rules for comments on this site:


Engage the contents and substance of the post. Rabbit trails and side issues do not help the discussion of the topics.  Our authors work hard to write these articles and it is a disservice to them to distract from the topic at hand.  If you have a topic you think is important to have an article or discussion on, we invite you to submit a request through the "Ask a Pastor" link or submit a guest article.


Provide a valid email address. If you’re unwilling to do this, we are unwilling to let you comment.


Provide at least your first name. Please try to come up with a unique name; if you have a common name add something to it so you aren't confused with another user. We have several "john"'s already for example.  If you have a good reason to use a fake name, please do so but realize that the administrators of the site expect a valid email address and also reserve the right to ask you for your name privately at any time.


If you post as more than one person from the same IP address, we’ll block that address.


Do not engage in ad hominem arguments. We will delete such comments, and will not be obligated to respond to any complaints (public or private ones) about deleting your comments.


Interaction between people leaving comments ought to reflect Christian virtue, interaction that is gracious and respectful, not judging motives.  If error is to be rebuked, evidence of the error ought to be provided.


We reserve the right to identify and deal with trollish behavior as we see fit and without apology.  This may include warnings (public or private ones) or banning.

  1. Jeff
    August 10th, 2012 at 18:13 | #1

    My understanding is that years ago ULC did NOT pay rent to the district, but rather the district paid rent TO ULC for office space on the 2nd floor of the building. It is rather strange that the landlord would pay rent to the tenant.

  2. August 10th, 2012 at 19:53 | #2

    @Peter Wagner #33
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=337501596335436
    “Here is a close up video of the ULC cornerstone, as of this morning.”

    Maybe when Pastor Sterle calls his old classmate, he can tell him when the district officials plan to return the congregation’s time capsule.

  3. Dana Kind
    August 10th, 2012 at 20:02 | #3

    @CDJ #50
    I was at the destruction site this morning and the cornerstone was not there. My husband tried to call Seitz, he has not yet returned his call.

  4. August 10th, 2012 at 20:19 | #4

    @Dana Kind #3

    Thank you, Mrs. Kind. My heart goes out to you and all the folks at ULC.

  5. Dana Kind
    August 10th, 2012 at 20:20 | #5

    Rev. Roger D. Sterle :

    1. Minnesota has always been North and South and that South owned the ULC property.
    2. ULC has over 3 million in donations for a new place to go along with the 2 milllion given them at convention.
    3. The district always considered them “renters” who were costing more than they contributed.
    4. The congregation of ULC was at times not able to even pay Pastor Kind because they are so small and give so little.
    Supposedly these four points were mentioned at the recent convention which gave them the 2 millions.
    Thanks and everyone–don’t discuss my questions here–please!!!

    Rev Sterle,

    As a member of ULC and the wife of Pr. Kind, I feel compelled to put to rest these rumors and lies that you have heard.
    1. When ULC was built MN was a single district. It was divided in 1963.
    2. ULC does not have an additional 3 million, only the 2 million given them at the convention and about 239,000 donated to the saveulc fund.
    3. ULC did not start paying rent to the district until 2001 or 2002. Early on the district actually paid rent to ULC to use space for the district offices. Furthermore when ULC did start paying rent, the district was supposed to put all of it in a special fund for repairs and capital improvements, which they quit doing without telling ULC until long after the fact.
    4. ULC has always treated my husband very well. They have never skipped a paycheck and pay full benefits at scale. We feel blessed to be at such a faithful congregation. As to congregational size, attendance and giving, please see the facts at the synod’s website. You’ll see that ULC has been steadily growing in every one of these areas. In fact it is probably the only congregation in minneapolis that is.

    Please inform your lay friend of the truth and ask him or her to do all they can to put these lies and rumors to rest.

    Dana Kind

  6. CDJ
    August 10th, 2012 at 21:42 | #6

    Thank you for the updates Dana. Prayers still ascending for your congregation…

  7. ralph luedtke
    August 13th, 2012 at 10:11 | #7

    most steeples will not fall when the churches are founded and defended with Word and Sacrament and faithful CONFESSIONAL pastors,districts and synod——w/o pc poison and leaven and church growth of sinking sand. CHRIST THE SOLID ROCK TRUTH AND POWER OF FORGIVENESS AND SALVATION BY GRACE

  8. Rev. Roger D. Sterle
    August 13th, 2012 at 19:34 | #8

    Readers of BJS
    Several days ago I put on this particular line of discussion questions regarding a discussion I had with a layperson. I had thought that bringing them here I would have some who would send me something to give this layperson. I did not myself think that my questions [the result of our conversation] contained any kind of correct information, and was attempting to get some good sources to change the layperson’s thoughts, since my direct conversation with them did no good. I am sorry that some felt they had to attack me with the inference in their attack that I myself believed this misinformation. I have discussed my questions with several different sources who saw my questions here. I have used their information to inform the layperson with whom I had my conversation that their assumption was severely misinformed! I thank those who brought me some very good points to share so this particular layperson will have the actual facts of the case. This will bring an end to my questions here. Again, thank you to those who have supplied me with some actual facts to share and my apologies for those who thought I was myself way off base in the first place.

  9. August 14th, 2012 at 05:15 | #9

    @Rev. Roger D. Sterle #8
    “I am sorry that some felt they had to attack me with the inference in their attack that I myself believed this misinformation… my apologies for those who thought I was myself way off base in the first place.”

    Excuse me, but this is what you posted: “Okay—from Steadfast I have heard so much about ULC and how the district did not treat them well. So tonight, I was talking with a layman who had some very different information. Will someone contact me off list [Norm give those who ask my email address] to answer some of my questions…”

    “My” questions. First you say you’ve heard ULC’s side of the story and now a layman has revealed to you another version of the story. Then you post blatant lies and ask us to just let them remain published unchallenged. And you call the lies, *in your own words,* “my questions.”

    Finally, you come back with an “apology” that essentially says, “I’m sorry you are all such poo-poo-heads. I did no wrong.”

    As my teenagers say, “Whatev…”

  10. August 14th, 2012 at 08:25 | #10

    This thread and “MNS Mission Moment” thread seem to be bringing out the worst in us:

    Our Witness is compromised
    Mercy is almost non-existent
    And Life Together is dis-integrating.

    Enough, already!

  11. August 15th, 2012 at 09:14 | #11

    Win :
    This thread and “MNS Mission Moment” thread seem to be bringing out the worst in us:
    Our Witness is compromised
    Mercy is almost non-existent
    And Life Together is dis-integrating.
    Enough, already!

    The Large Catechism

    Introduction

    A Christian, Profitable, and Necessary Preface, and Faithful, Earnest Exhortation of Dr. Martin Luther to All Christians, but Especially to All Pastors and Preachers, that They Should Daily Exercise Themselves in the Catechism, which is a Short Summary and, Epitome of the Entire Holy Scriptures, and that They May Always Teach the Same.

    The Eighth Commandment.

    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

    “But where the sin is quite public so that the judge and everybody know it, you can without any sin avoid him and let him go, because he has brought himself into disgrace, and you may also publicly testify concerning him. For when a matter is public in the light of day, there can be no slandering or false judging or testifying; as, when we now reprove the Pope with his doctrine, which is publicly set forth in books and proclaimed in all the world. For where the sin is public, the reproof also must be public, that every one may learn to guard against it.”

    Funerary stele

    ULC

    @Win #10

  12. August 15th, 2012 at 10:31 | #12

    @Mark Huntemann #11

    It’s one thing to call attention to a public sin. However, if one looks carefully at some of the postings here, it should be obvious that they are “over the top,” and unneccessarily harsh and yes, judgmental, and hardly conducive to healing the deep wounds that have been inflicted, and the relationships that have been so severely wounded. Such comments go far beyond Luther’s counsel. So when does the healing begin? Or do we allow the sun to set on our collective anger?

  13. Matthew Mills
    August 15th, 2012 at 10:52 | #13

    @Win #12
    Healing begins w/ repentance, and I see no repentance in the words or actions of the MNS BOD, or Dr. Seitz. When faced w/ unrepentant sin, the right prescription is the law. That might seem harsh, but we are talking about the immortal souls of unrepentant sinners, so the harshness is by no means “unnecessary.” Without an acknowledgement of, and repentance for, this sin, there can be no forgiveness or healing.

    13 “For from the least to the greatest of them,
    everyone is greedy for unjust gain;
    and from prophet to priest,
    everyone deals falsely.
    14 They have healed the wound of my people lightly,
    saying, ‘Peace, peace,’
    when there is no peace.
    15 Were they ashamed when they committed abomination?
    No, they were not at all ashamed;
    they did not know how to blush.
    Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
    at the time that I punish them, they shall be overthrown,”
    says the Lord. (Jeremiah 6:13-15)

  14. August 15th, 2012 at 18:11 | #14

    I stand arm to arm with My Christian Brother Matthew Mills.

    @Win #12

  15. Noreen Linke
    August 15th, 2012 at 18:15 | #15

    @Mark Huntemann #14
    That makes three of us.

  16. August 15th, 2012 at 18:21 | #16
  17. August 15th, 2012 at 18:33 | #17

  18. August 15th, 2012 at 18:37 | #18

    @Matthew Mills #13

    @Mark Huntemann #14

    @Noreen Linke #15

    @Pastor Ted Crandall #16

    Looks as though I’m standing alone on this one. OK by me.

  19. Carol Broome
    August 15th, 2012 at 19:04 | #19

    Win, I am with you AND with Matt.

    I am disturbed by some of the posts directed at Pastor Sterle. I don’t believe that all of them are worthy of ULC’s example of Christian communication and forebearance, and of speaking the truth in love.

    I also believe that repentance from President Seitz and the MNS BOD is sorely needed, and that they are in serious spiritual danger unless and until they do repent.

  20. Win
    August 15th, 2012 at 19:50 | #20

    @Carol Broome #19

    Carol, I stand with you. Some of the posts directed against Pr. Sterle are indeed disturbing. With respect to DP Seitz and BOD, there’s a misunderstanding here–nowhere have I defended what the MNS Board and DP did to ULC. I have voiced my opinions on that issue elsewhere. And I agree with you about the need for repentance. However, someplace above I gave the MNS BOD the benefit of a doubt regarding the cornerstone box. The response was hardly charitable and very unloving. Other characterizations of DP Seitz and the BOD are over the top. As I said above, calling attention to a public sin is one thing, but ecclesiastical slam-dunking is quite another.

    This is my last posting on this thread, as I’m beating a dead horse here. Thanks for standing with me, at least in part.

  21. Carol Broome
    August 15th, 2012 at 21:09 | #21

    @Win #20
    I can’t give the BOD a pass on the cornerstone box or on the cornerstone itself. Having followed this pretty closely, I see a great deal of evidence of malice and ‘show of right’. The whole thing is heartbreaking, evil, and a blot on our Synod. I wish I could see how we will get past this as a Synod without resolving some of these glaring issues. I do not.

  22. helen
    August 16th, 2012 at 09:18 | #22

    @Carol Broome #19
    I also believe that repentance from President Seitz and the MNS BOD is sorely needed, and that they are in serious spiritual danger unless and until they do repent.

    Amen.

    And the district convention, which elected “more of the same” even while throwing “conscience money” to ULC.

    SAD!

  23. Noreen Linke
    August 16th, 2012 at 09:42 | #23

    @helen #22
    There was a glimmer of good news in the elections. I believe there were 5 or 6 Confessionals elected to the MNS BOD at this recent election, including my daughter, who is both a member of ULC and a lawyer. They have a hard job ahead of them, as they will be in a serious minority, so please keep them in your prayers as they begin a most difficult position. Pray for wisdom, protection, and strength to withstand.

  24. helen
    August 16th, 2012 at 09:59 | #24

    @Rev. Roger D. Sterle #8
    I did not myself think that my questions [the result of our conversation] contained any kind of correct information, and was attempting to get some good sources to change the layperson’s thoughts, since my direct conversation with them did no good.

    Telling “the rest of the story”, in the first place, might have resulted in a more useful thread! (Not describing the gossip as “my questions” might have helped, too.)

    I had considered Pr. Sterle to be a reasonable person, from contact on other lists, so the quality of his inquiries surprised me. I’ve just read the whole thing again and only one person directly reprimands Pr. Sterle. Sorry, but I don’t think he has been “unfairly attacked”.

    Some people tried to lighten the topic with a little humor. (Thanks, I enjoyed it!)

    CarlVehse gave good advice. Then there is Internet 101: Don’t post anything you wouldn’t want to find on a bill board in your home town. Don’t expect “privacy” on a public forum!
    If you want a private answer, contact people privately.

    .

  25. helen
    August 16th, 2012 at 10:10 | #25

    @Noreen Linke #23
    There was a glimmer of good news in the elections.

    I’m glad to hear that! I was old ALC when I lived in MN So. and very few of my relatives have been upset enough to join LCMS. But I would like to think that MN people have more sense than they/their elected leaders have demonstrated lately.
    Since there are several confessionals, even though a minority, I hope they will be able to hang together and encourage Lutheran behavior!

    Lord, have mercy on your faithful servants.

    [Norm: Thanks for picking a code I can read, since we have to have them.]

  26. mbw
    August 16th, 2012 at 11:53 | #26

    @Carol Broome #21

    > show of right

    Exactly the issue.

Comment pages
1 2 21841
If you have problems commenting on this site, or need to change a comment after it has been posted on the site, please contact us. For help with getting your comment formatted, click here.
Subscribe to comments feed  ..  Subscribe to comments feed for this post
Anonymous comments are welcome on this board, but we do require a valid email address so the admins can verify who you are. Please try to come up with a unique name; if you have a common name add something to it so you aren't confused with another user. We have several "john"'s already for example. Email addresses are kept private on this site, and only available to the site admins. Comments posted without a valid email address may not be published. Want an icon to identify your comment? See this page to see how.
*

Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. You can also subscribe without commenting.