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	<title>Comments on: Calvin, Luther, KFUO and a Merry Christmas &#8211; Comment from the Cello Player</title>
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	<description>An international fraternity of confessional Lutheran laymen and pastors, supporting proclamation of Christian doctrine in the new media.</description>
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		<title>By: Eric Ramer</title>
		<link>http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=8681#comment-68002</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Ramer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 19:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you for this post Larry.  I&#039;m going to copy it and send it to some friends who have been bashing the &quot;stogieness&quot; of our hymnody.  You&#039;ve laid it out quite eloquently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this post Larry.  I&#8217;m going to copy it and send it to some friends who have been bashing the &#8220;stogieness&#8221; of our hymnody.  You&#8217;ve laid it out quite eloquently.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=8681#comment-67988</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting thread concerning music.  It could go in a couple of directions.  My wife and I have backgrounds first in various SB congregations up to and including a â€œCalvinisticâ€ SB church, then to PCA finally LCMS.  This was our first full year at our LCMS church and through the Christmas season.  I could not help but notice a couple of music related issues as to worship in a liturgical church versus others we had previously attended.

1.	Our first background, especially my wifeâ€™s, was rooted in the more â€œfree style worshipâ€ one finds today in most evangelical and SB churches.  That means bands and mostly pop â€œChristian tunesâ€.  The old argument basically is we donâ€™t want to get into that old school tired repetitive nothing new stuff of churches in ages past.  As we sang through various hymns out of the Lutheran service book over the Advent season it practically leaped off of the page.  My wife has more musical background than I do and Iâ€™m more of a person who appreciates music with no talent, she also has a life long background of being in the church, I donâ€™t.  All that to say is she grew up learning a LOT more hymns than I ever did.  All that to say this, she noticed this too, we were singing hymns and psalms we never ever heard before.  In our old SB churches it was basically the â€œbig threeâ€ (like Amazing Grace) and then a handful of pop â€œChristianâ€ tunes done over and over and over again.  In the Lutheran worship the waters are deep, hymns and lyrics Iâ€™ve never ever heard before.  In other words itâ€™s the â€œfree worshipâ€ style that is utterly repetitive and stogy!
2.	We noticed that not only hymns weâ€™d never heard of, but EVEN within the Christmas songs we knew well (e.g. Oâ€™ Come Emanuel, Hark The Herald Angels Sing), we were actually singing the other 4 or 5 verses we NEVER sang in other churches.  So the not only hymns never heard before, but verses weâ€™d never heard or sang before.
3.	The verses most often removed from the traditional hymns still heard on rare occasion at heterodox churches are the strong verses concerning the incarnation or resurrection of Christ.  What was painfully obvious was that most of the strong incarnational verses are removed and retained are usually the opening verse and one select one.  I found even myself, who has not purged all my own evangelical â€œgut reactionâ€, at first singing these â€œnewâ€ â€œstrong incarnational/resurrection versusâ€ thinking, â€œWhooaaa, thatâ€™s a bit strong is it notâ€.  Then oddly encouraged by what they said.  The â€œearthynessâ€ of the incarnation and resurrection is both offensive to the old man, and greatly faith strengthening to the new man!
4.	This next issue is more seen against our prior SB background.  The Trinitarian nature of the music (and worship in general).  Itâ€™s almost if not entirely vanquished from Baptist music.  Even the worship.  I told my wife, â€œCan you imagine outside of the rare moment of â€œbelievers baptismâ€ being done the mention of the Trinity.  How do you suppose it would be received in our former SB churches if the Pastor stated frequently in the worship, â€œin the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spiritâ€?  It would be so out of sorts it would IMMEDIATELY be identified as a problem.  It would not last one Sunday without immediate address.  Other than in the rite of believers baptism and the rare outside apologetic SS class against say the Mormons, and the EXTREMELY rare occasion of the singing of the 100th Psalm, one could live their entire life in a SB church and never here otherwise of the Trinity.

I could go further but thatâ€™s enough for now.

Larry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thread concerning music.  It could go in a couple of directions.  My wife and I have backgrounds first in various SB congregations up to and including a â€œCalvinisticâ€ SB church, then to PCA finally LCMS.  This was our first full year at our LCMS church and through the Christmas season.  I could not help but notice a couple of music related issues as to worship in a liturgical church versus others we had previously attended.</p>
<p>1.	Our first background, especially my wifeâ€™s, was rooted in the more â€œfree style worshipâ€ one finds today in most evangelical and SB churches.  That means bands and mostly pop â€œChristian tunesâ€.  The old argument basically is we donâ€™t want to get into that old school tired repetitive nothing new stuff of churches in ages past.  As we sang through various hymns out of the Lutheran service book over the Advent season it practically leaped off of the page.  My wife has more musical background than I do and Iâ€™m more of a person who appreciates music with no talent, she also has a life long background of being in the church, I donâ€™t.  All that to say is she grew up learning a LOT more hymns than I ever did.  All that to say this, she noticed this too, we were singing hymns and psalms we never ever heard before.  In our old SB churches it was basically the â€œbig threeâ€ (like Amazing Grace) and then a handful of pop â€œChristianâ€ tunes done over and over and over again.  In the Lutheran worship the waters are deep, hymns and lyrics Iâ€™ve never ever heard before.  In other words itâ€™s the â€œfree worshipâ€ style that is utterly repetitive and stogy!<br />
2.	We noticed that not only hymns weâ€™d never heard of, but EVEN within the Christmas songs we knew well (e.g. Oâ€™ Come Emanuel, Hark The Herald Angels Sing), we were actually singing the other 4 or 5 verses we NEVER sang in other churches.  So the not only hymns never heard before, but verses weâ€™d never heard or sang before.<br />
3.	The verses most often removed from the traditional hymns still heard on rare occasion at heterodox churches are the strong verses concerning the incarnation or resurrection of Christ.  What was painfully obvious was that most of the strong incarnational verses are removed and retained are usually the opening verse and one select one.  I found even myself, who has not purged all my own evangelical â€œgut reactionâ€, at first singing these â€œnewâ€ â€œstrong incarnational/resurrection versusâ€ thinking, â€œWhooaaa, thatâ€™s a bit strong is it notâ€.  Then oddly encouraged by what they said.  The â€œearthynessâ€ of the incarnation and resurrection is both offensive to the old man, and greatly faith strengthening to the new man!<br />
4.	This next issue is more seen against our prior SB background.  The Trinitarian nature of the music (and worship in general).  Itâ€™s almost if not entirely vanquished from Baptist music.  Even the worship.  I told my wife, â€œCan you imagine outside of the rare moment of â€œbelievers baptismâ€ being done the mention of the Trinity.  How do you suppose it would be received in our former SB churches if the Pastor stated frequently in the worship, â€œin the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spiritâ€?  It would be so out of sorts it would IMMEDIATELY be identified as a problem.  It would not last one Sunday without immediate address.  Other than in the rite of believers baptism and the rare outside apologetic SS class against say the Mormons, and the EXTREMELY rare occasion of the singing of the 100th Psalm, one could live their entire life in a SB church and never here otherwise of the Trinity.</p>
<p>I could go further but thatâ€™s enough for now.</p>
<p>Larry</p>
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