Comments on: Good Stuff Found by Norm: Wild Boar on “Flame Alone”

By: stub

stub — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:42:44 +0000

One of the interesting terms quoted above was “whole life stewardship.” Based on my experience at a presentation given at district convention within the past year, this term may refer to getting pastors to make relationships with the elderly so that in their death they bequeath assets to the congregation and also the LCMS at large and in charge. Evidently alot of people with alot of assets will be dying soon. They called this the pig in a python phenomenon and showed a graph of the amount of people expected to pass away within the next decade and how many assets they own. It was so crass. Nobody said a word. At least Tetzel was publically humiliated. These guys should have been laughed down. People should have thrown food at them.

By: Dutch

Dutch — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:03:24 +0000

Scott,
Thank you, thank you, thank you, for using that term…Emerging Church. That is what this is, in all but correct verbage. Emergents are proud to use the term, why can’t we call it by it’s chosen name?

By: johannes

johannes — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:17:53 +0000

@Scott Diekmann #21
From what I’ve seen “missio Dei” is alive and well in the LCMS, emergent or no. It’s all over the Task Force recommendations. And, when you think about it, the “missio Dei” end justifies the Task Force’s means.

I’ll be in Dearborn–I’ll look y’all up.

By: Scott Diekmann

Scott Diekmann — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 07:04:27 +0000

The concept of “missio dei” is alive and well, and worshiped, in the Emerging Church. They’re all about God’s mission, and they’re co-creators, busy bringing God’s future into the present. They serve “the least of these,” but only in a physical sense, not so much in a spiritual sense. Social gospel only.

By: Conv. Delegate

Conv. Delegate — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 12:58:18 +0000

I too wonder how our Synod and District officials stay in touch with congregations. The BRTFSSG proposals this summer talked about taking all term limits off Synodical and District positions. (I’m glad to see that is not in the current proposals.) I thought (and sent the suggestion to the committee) that rather than doing that, there should be term limits of no more than two terms; six years or so on EVERY Synodical and District position.

This would hopefully encourage our leaders to return to congregational service. Were they to do that, I’m sure they would bring a different, more global perspective to the field. And new leaders would bring fresh ideas as well as maintaining that congregational perspective.

District or Synodical leadership should not be an end unto itself. Unfotunately all too often that seems to be the case.

Our leaders our human too and given the salaries that are paid in St. Louis, I’m sure it is difficult to return to congregtaional ministry. I found this on the LCMS website. It is from 2006, but I would assume it is still fairly accurate.

“The maximum of the salary range for the four elected officers of the Synod and other executives in administration, higher education, and mission, plus chief executives at Lutheran Church Extension Fund, The Lutheran Churchâ€”Missouri Synod Foundation, Concordia Historical Institute, and Concordia Publishing House equals 152 percent of the average salaries of the 150 highest-paid parish pastors and 150 highest-paid executives of agencies and institutions of the Synod participating in the Concordia Retirement Plan.”

I am sure that those in leadership are good, hard-working men, but 152% of the “highest-paid parish pastors” seems excessive. It would make it financially difficult for anyone to return to the field and isn’t that where ministry and sharing the Gospel is taking place?

By: johannes

johannes — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 12:56:29 +0000

Pastors Rossow and Stefanski, thank you for your insights into Missio Dei. They are very helpful. Without skipping over the layman’s “duty” to “always be ready…”, etc., it’s the office of the Ministry that is at the center of all this. And it’s my opinion that preaching needs a lot of work in our synod. My DP, a very wise man, has said as much, and is doing something about it. Interesting, too, that in his recent interview with Pr. Cwirla, Matthew Harrison said exactly the same thing. This is no “rabbit trail”–it is relevant to the original post. See A.C. V.

By: Rev. Eric J. Stefanski

Rev. Eric J. Stefanski — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 05:20:46 +0000

Pastor Tim Rossow : The â€œMissio Deiâ€ theologians are not thinking in terms of the concrete incarnation of Christ for the blood atonement and the succesive sending of stewards to pronounce that forgiveness.

That's the point, really: it's not that the word doesn't occur within the framework of the work of the Church, but that the only time it significantly does, they don't take it up, but try to establish everything except what the text indicates. EJG

By: Pastor Tim Rossow

Pastor Tim Rossow — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 05:00:39 +0000

I guess in a limited sense you could call “mission” a Biblical word but not too the extent or in the manner the “Missio Dei” gang uses it.

I do not see evidence for the theology of “Missio Dei” in the use of the “pempo” word group in the New Testament. The John 20 use is certainly significant but most uses are rather pedestrian (pun intended), referring to sending for someone or something.

The “Missio Dei” theologians are not thinking in terms of the concrete incarnation of Christ for the blood atonement and the succesive sending of stewards to pronounce that forgiveness.

By: Rev. Eric J. Stefanski

Rev. Eric J. Stefanski — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 04:25:35 +0000

Pastor Tim Rossow : 1. â€œMissionâ€ is not a Biblical term.

Sure it is. See St. John 20:21-23, to wit: 21) dixit ergo eis iterum pax vobis sicut misit me Pater et ego mitto vos 21 So Jesus said to them again, â€œPeace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.â€ 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, â€œReceive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.â€ Christ sends for the forgiveness of sins. Cf. Romans 10. "Mission" is about the Office of the Ministry/the forgiveness of sins. EJG

By: johannes

johannes — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 01:27:35 +0000

@Pastor Tim Rossow #14
Is mind-reading among your talents? I have just done #5 above, and was absolutely astounded that a DP would write such stuff. As I said, if you read the new structure material closely, it’s all over the place there. Newton’s paper, defending “accountability” (guess where that comes from), left me saying “What?” just as you described above. I said a few other things, as well.

If C.F.W. Walther, that LCMS giant, were to awaken (you know, a “Sleeping Giant”) and return–kind of a Lutheran Rip Van Winkel–and see what has happened in the LCMS, he’d not only exclaim, “WHAT?”, he’d get a club and swing it in St. Louis, and elsewhere, with somewhat reckless abandon. He might use a seven-iron (biblical number) and commit mayhem. The purple palace would look a lot worse than that golfer in the news lately.

That kind of stuff is so patently dangerous to the weaker brothers and sisters. How can his ecclesiastical supervisor let him publish that stuff?

Thanks for the insights–you can get back to reading over tomorrow’s sermon.